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> This trope that minorities are affected by voter ID laws doesn’t pass the slightest scrutiny. It is well-supported by actual research (e.g. [1]) AND by simpl
by Timon3 2y ago
> This trope that minorities are affected by voter ID laws doesn’t pass the slightest scrutiny.
It is well-supported by actual research (e.g. [1]) AND by simple logic. Every single point you brought up has a clear counter argument - why didn't you respond to any of them? Have you simply never heard anyone mention them?
> It’s also just plainly offensive and racist to assume minorities can’t show the basic competency to obtain ID when you already need it for so many things.
It's plainly offensive and racist to ignore studies (e.g. [2]) that prove a higher percentage of minorities owns government issued photo ID compared to non-minorities. I'm not assuming anything, I'm only looking at statistics, at real people and data. You're instead attempting to move the conversation away from data.
> Where were these complaints when everyone, including minorities, had to show documentation around their vaccination status for various things?
First, such complaints did exist back then as well. Second, both vaccination and frequent testing were subsidized by the government, with extra investments towards minorities. Why don't advocates of voter ID ever make similar suggestions? Why not propose a program that allows any minority to acquire a government ID without any downsides, and once that's done propose voter ID?
> Why isn’t this issue in every other country that does require ID to vote in elections?
Because in pretty much every other developed country:
- there exist standardized, government issued IDs that are distributed to every citizen during normal government interactions (e.g. in Germany you must own government ID)
- poor people (a group that minorities make up a disproportionately large part of) have more free time and are in far less precarious positions regarding job security, and consequently health care
- poor people have a far easier time getting to government buildings (e.g. cities are less car-reliant, better public transport, better coverage of government buildings)
The US is in a very different position compared to most other countries. It’s just plainly offensive and racist to introduce additional barriers to basic rights while fully aware that the average person from minority groups will have to spend more time and effort to clear them.
I'm not going to spend time digging up research for every claim I've made unless you're willing to do the same for your positions. But since you've now been made aware that this "trope" does pass the slightest scrutiny, I'm looking forward to your response! Just to summarize, you'll have to explain how the disparate impact of additional barriers to voting isn't "plainly offensive and racist" given that:
- non-minorities are much more likely to own a government ID than minorities
- non-minorities on average have an easier time acquiring such ID
- non-minorities on average face fewer potential repercussions regarding work and health care acquiring such ID
[1] http://ippsr.msu.edu/research/voter-identification-laws-and-suppression-minority-votes http://ippsr.msu.edu/research/voter-identification-laws-and-...
[2] https://www.voteriders.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/CDCE_VoteRiders_ANES2020Report_Spring2023.pdf https://www.voteriders.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/CDCE_V...
- sroerick 2y agoI certainly don’t think we should restrict voting to landowners but maybe having a minimum requirement for citizens to participate in democracy (having an ID) isn’t a bad thing. I think the concern with not requiring ID is that it could allow non-citizens to vote. Making it illegal for non-citizens to vote also disproportionately affects minorities, but that doesn’t justify changing that. Do you know any minorities personally who have struggled to get an ID? Most minorities I know would be pretty offended by that implication.
- Timon3 2y ago> I certainly don’t think we should restrict voting to landowners but maybe having a minimum requirement for citizens to participate in democracy (having an ID) isn’t a bad thing. Come on, you can't mean this in good faith as a response to my previous comment. It's a fact that minorities are less likely to have government ID, and that it's on average harder for them to acquire it. This is not "a minimum requirement", this is a requirement that - in the current system - deliberately shifts power by disenfranchising voters. > I think the concern with not requiring ID is that it could allow non-citizens to vote. Making it illegal for non-citizens to vote also disproportionately affects minorities, but that doesn’t justify changing that. It is already illegal for non-citizens to vote, but I'm sure you know that. You also know that there is no comparison between the two things. The worst part is: non-citizens voting would be a valid concern if there were any evidence for this happening beyond a handful of cases per election. But there isn't, because non-citizens generally don't want to risk being caught for one single additional vote. And it's not for a lack of looking - the GOP has spent millions upon millions of dollars to find anything, and they have not been able to procure evidence of non-citizens voting in any meaningful capacity. Yet apparently the rules must be changed anyway, no matter the cost to democracy. > Do you know any minorities personally who have struggled to get an ID? Most minorities I know would be pretty offended by that implication. Do you have anything meaningful to contribute to this discussion? Any response to any of the points I've already brought up? I don't need to bring up anecdotal evidence when this topic has been broadly researched, and basic logic leads to the same inevitable conclusion.
- 2y ago