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I don’t know why this is so hard in America. All other developed countries make this work, what are Americans lacking? The system is just: - Keep a list of ci

I don’t know why this is so hard in America. All other developed countries make this work, what are Americans lacking? The system is just: - Keep a list of citizens allowed to vote - Print paper ballots with the names of the candidates - ask for a proper ID with photograph - collect the votes - count them by hand with the oversee of representatives of the candidates That’s it, that’s all there’s to it and we count 99% of the votes in less than 6h.

TheCondor 2y ago
Because the races are close and both candidates have access to the same technology, which also drives them closer, they attack the process. It can be difficult to get on the list of eligible voters; different places count different things as a proper ID. If you are poor or marginalized in other ways, getting a proper ID can be a challenge. The US has a long history of trying to prevent substantial populations from voting; it’s even designed into the Constitution. Just this week, the Supreme Court ruled that votes in Pennsylvania that don’t have the date written on them (properly) but were mailed in don’t have to be counted. That has nothing to do with the intent of the voter, but political factions think it affects their chances one way or the other. In some states, you can’t give water to people while they wait in line to vote.
Timon3 2y ago
You're leaving out that a good portion of developed countries also offer some form of voting by mail. Some US states have rules in place that dictate any mail-in ballots can only be counted starting on election day - since they take more time to process (for verification etc.), this creates large delays in individual states. Also the photo ID part is different in the US, since there's no uniform governmental ID that every citizen is expected to have. Minorities are less likely to have such ID compared to non-minorities, and (since minorities are disproportionately more likely to be poor) on average face larger issues acquiring such ID.
- wtcactus 2y ago
  Vote by mail is completely negligible in countries where the described process works fine.
  - Timon3 2y ago
    As an example, in the 2021 election in Germany 47.3% of votes were cast by mail: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2022/01/PE22_036_14.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2022/01/PE22_036_14.html Are you trying to say that the process doesn't work fine in Germany?
    - wtcactus 2y ago
      I’m arguing it’s not a factor. In Portugal vote by mail is negligible and we get the results late the same night.
      - Timon3 2y ago
        I'm genuinely not sure what you're trying to say. Obviously processing mail-in ballots won't take long if there aren't many. But as I've shown, countries with uncontested elections have many people voting by mail, so unless you're contesting the German elections this by itself isn't suspicious. And since states have rules about when counting is allowed to start, it's also obvious that counting them will finish later. So what is your point?
        wtcactus 2y ago
        My point is that other developed countries are perfectly able to have a transparent electoral process and present the results in very little time, even doing everything by paper voting. Arguments that you need voting machines, or extensive mail voting, or pre voting, or not check a valid photo ID to be able to carry out the process in due time, are completely against what the reality shows in all other developed countries.
        Timon3 2y ago
returningfory2 2y ago
Other posters have mentioned that there's historically been a lot of voter suppression in the US, which has led to a lot of people being against anything that would make voting harder ("ask for a proper ID with photograph"). However there is another more cynical thing going on, which is that in recent times the pro-voting-rights Democratic party has also benefited electorally from the increased turnout resulting from looser voting rules. This has made any changes to voter ID laws impossible to pass federally (where they are currently set). This situation is changing now though because polling and the last election suggest that increased turnout currently benefits Republicans. Many commentators believe that within a year the Democratic party will actually be agnostic on voting ID laws, and already in this election you can see that "getting out the vote" is not much of a Democratic talking point.
ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 2y ago
Ah yes, the old rest of the world reduced to a single system. > - ask for a proper ID with photograph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws

TheCondor 2y ago

Because the races are close and both candidates have access to the same technology, which also drives them closer, they attack the process. It can be difficult to get on the list of eligible voters; different places count different things as a proper ID. If you are poor or marginalized in other ways, getting a proper ID can be a challenge. The US has a long history of trying to prevent substantial populations from voting; it’s even designed into the Constitution. Just this week, the Supreme Court ruled that votes in Pennsylvania that don’t have the date written on them (properly) but were mailed in don’t have to be counted. That has nothing to do with the intent of the voter, but political factions think it affects their chances one way or the other. In some states, you can’t give water to people while they wait in line to vote.

Timon3 2y ago

You're leaving out that a good portion of developed countries also offer some form of voting by mail. Some US states have rules in place that dictate any mail-in ballots can only be counted starting on election day - since they take more time to process (for verification etc.), this creates large delays in individual states. Also the photo ID part is different in the US, since there's no uniform governmental ID that every citizen is expected to have. Minorities are less likely to have such ID compared to non-minorities, and (since minorities are disproportionately more likely to be poor) on average face larger issues acquiring such ID.

wtcactus 2y ago
Vote by mail is completely negligible in countries where the described process works fine.
- Timon3 2y ago
  As an example, in the 2021 election in Germany 47.3% of votes were cast by mail: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2022/01/PE22_036_14.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2022/01/PE22_036_14.html Are you trying to say that the process doesn't work fine in Germany?
  - wtcactus 2y ago
    I’m arguing it’s not a factor. In Portugal vote by mail is negligible and we get the results late the same night.
    - Timon3 2y ago
      I'm genuinely not sure what you're trying to say. Obviously processing mail-in ballots won't take long if there aren't many. But as I've shown, countries with uncontested elections have many people voting by mail, so unless you're contesting the German elections this by itself isn't suspicious. And since states have rules about when counting is allowed to start, it's also obvious that counting them will finish later. So what is your point?
      - wtcactus 2y ago
        My point is that other developed countries are perfectly able to have a transparent electoral process and present the results in very little time, even doing everything by paper voting. Arguments that you need voting machines, or extensive mail voting, or pre voting, or not check a valid photo ID to be able to carry out the process in due time, are completely against what the reality shows in all other developed countries.
        Timon3 2y ago

returningfory2 2y ago

Other posters have mentioned that there's historically been a lot of voter suppression in the US, which has led to a lot of people being against anything that would make voting harder ("ask for a proper ID with photograph"). However there is another more cynical thing going on, which is that in recent times the pro-voting-rights Democratic party has also benefited electorally from the increased turnout resulting from looser voting rules. This has made any changes to voter ID laws impossible to pass federally (where they are currently set). This situation is changing now though because polling and the last election suggest that increased turnout currently benefits Republicans. Many commentators believe that within a year the Democratic party will actually be agnostic on voting ID laws, and already in this election you can see that "getting out the vote" is not much of a Democratic talking point.

ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 2y ago

Ah yes, the old rest of the world reduced to a single system. > - ask for a proper ID with photograph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws