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Exactly. Putting everything, I mean everything into the browser, and arguing for it, is stupid. It stops becoming a browser then and becomes a native sytem, wi

Exactly. Putting everything, I mean everything into the browser, and arguing for it, is stupid. It stops becoming a browser then and becomes a native sytem, with the problems of the native systems accessing the open wild all over again. And then? Will be there a sandbox inside the browser/new-OS for the sake of security then? Sanbox into a not so sandbox anymore?

junon 2y ago
That's exactly what ChromeOS is/was. Users hated it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
vbezhenar 2y ago
Modern operating systems are bad and they are not going to be fixed. So Browser is another attempt at creating better operating system. Why modern operating systems are bad: 1. Desktop OS allow installation of unrestricted applications. And actually most applications are unrestricted. While there are attempts at creating containerised applications, those attempts are weak and not popular. When I'm installing World of Warcraft, its installer silently adds trusted root certificate into my computer. 2. Mobile OS are walled gardens. You can't just run anything, you need to jump through many hoops at best or live in certain countries at worst. 3. There's no common ground for every operating system. Every operating system is different, has completely different APIs. While there are frameworks which try to abstract those things, those frameworks adds their own pile of issues. Browser just fixes everything. It provides secure sandbox which is trusted by billions of users. It does not restrict user in any way, there's no "Website Store" or something like that, you can open everything and you can bring your app online within few minutes. It provides an uniform API which is enough to create many kinds of applications and it'll run everywhere: iPhone, Pixel, Macbook, Surface, Thinkpad.
- smolder 2y ago
  Unrestricted app installation is not bad. It's a trade-off. It's freedom to use your own hardware how you want versus 'safety' and restriction imposed by some central authority which aims to profit. Fuck app stores, generally speaking. I prefer to determine what source to trust myself and not be charged (directly or indirectly) to put software on my own system.
  - vbezhenar 2y ago
    An overwhelming majority of the apps does not need full device access. All they need is to draw to the window and talk with network. Yes, there are apps which might need full filesystem access, for example to measure directory sizes or to search things on the filesystem. There are apps to check neighbour WiFi for security which need very full access to WiFi adapter and that's fine. But those apps could use another way of installation, like entering password 3 times and dancing for 1 minute, to ensure that user understands the full implications of giving such an access. My point is that on typical desktop operating system today, typical application has too much access and many applications actually use that access for bad things, like spying for user, installing their own startup launchers, updaters and whatnot. Web does that better. You can't make your webapp to open when browser starts, unless you ask user to perform a complicated sequence of actions. You can't make your webapp to access my ssh key unless you ask me to drag it into a webpage.

junon 2y ago

That's exactly what ChromeOS is/was. Users hated it.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

vbezhenar 2y ago

Modern operating systems are bad and they are not going to be fixed. So Browser is another attempt at creating better operating system. Why modern operating systems are bad: 1. Desktop OS allow installation of unrestricted applications. And actually most applications are unrestricted. While there are attempts at creating containerised applications, those attempts are weak and not popular. When I'm installing World of Warcraft, its installer silently adds trusted root certificate into my computer. 2. Mobile OS are walled gardens. You can't just run anything, you need to jump through many hoops at best or live in certain countries at worst. 3. There's no common ground for every operating system. Every operating system is different, has completely different APIs. While there are frameworks which try to abstract those things, those frameworks adds their own pile of issues. Browser just fixes everything. It provides secure sandbox which is trusted by billions of users. It does not restrict user in any way, there's no "Website Store" or something like that, you can open everything and you can bring your app online within few minutes. It provides an uniform API which is enough to create many kinds of applications and it'll run everywhere: iPhone, Pixel, Macbook, Surface, Thinkpad.

smolder 2y ago
Unrestricted app installation is not bad. It's a trade-off. It's freedom to use your own hardware how you want versus 'safety' and restriction imposed by some central authority which aims to profit. Fuck app stores, generally speaking. I prefer to determine what source to trust myself and not be charged (directly or indirectly) to put software on my own system.
- vbezhenar 2y ago
  An overwhelming majority of the apps does not need full device access. All they need is to draw to the window and talk with network. Yes, there are apps which might need full filesystem access, for example to measure directory sizes or to search things on the filesystem. There are apps to check neighbour WiFi for security which need very full access to WiFi adapter and that's fine. But those apps could use another way of installation, like entering password 3 times and dancing for 1 minute, to ensure that user understands the full implications of giving such an access. My point is that on typical desktop operating system today, typical application has too much access and many applications actually use that access for bad things, like spying for user, installing their own startup launchers, updaters and whatnot. Web does that better. You can't make your webapp to open when browser starts, unless you ask user to perform a complicated sequence of actions. You can't make your webapp to access my ssh key unless you ask me to drag it into a webpage.