4 ms·

You are right that small programs compile to pretty big JS-files, but noone should really care. I can do my "hello world" apps in javascript without a problem,

by bp74 14y ago

You are right that small programs compile to pretty big JS-files, but noone should really care. I can do my "hello world" apps in javascript without a problem, the point of Dart is to write big apps! For those apps the footprint of the compiled JS-code doesn't matter at all. And you can work with nice structured source code.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Well, personally I don't want to use a language that compiles to a representation around 50 times larger than the source code.
- bp74 14y ago
  hahaha, i totally agree - if it is 50x larger i would use a different tool too :) But as i said, if your source is 100KB it's not 50x larger, maybe it's 20% larger than hand written JS. Currently the footprint of the js-code is around 150KB. While dart2js is evolving this number is declining constantly. In the end when you add js-minification you will have a footprint of maybe 20-30KB i guess.
- munificent 14y ago
  The JS output that gets generated from a Dart program isn't just "dart_size * multiplier", it's "dart_size * multiplier + constant". So, when you see a tiny Dart program being compiled to a large amount of JS, that doesn't mean a large Dart program will compile to a huge amount of JS, it just means that the constant is dwarfing the multiplier. The constant is coming from the runtime library (or, more accurately, the portions of the runtime library that your program uses). That's relatively fixed so as your Dart program gets larger, the overhead of that becomes relatively smaller. The actual code-size multiplier when going from Dart -> JavaScript is actually fairly small and getting smaller over time. In some cases, we may actually compile Dart code to less JavaScript code because of things like dead code elimination and constant folding. JavaScript code size is something that we consider a core metric for dart2js and we're constantly working to reduce it.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    Of course. I'm just a little concerned about how easy it is to inflate a program's size in Dart by including another core library.
    - munificent 14y ago
      That's true of every language, though, isn't it? If you use libraries, your app gets bigger.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
        I suppose so, I guess I'm too used to dynamic, interpreted languages that don't need to include the standard library in the output.

by bp74 14y ago

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

Well, personally I don't want to use a language that compiles to a representation around 50 times larger than the source code.

bp74 14y ago
hahaha, i totally agree - if it is 50x larger i would use a different tool too :) But as i said, if your source is 100KB it's not 50x larger, maybe it's 20% larger than hand written JS. Currently the footprint of the js-code is around 150KB. While dart2js is evolving this number is declining constantly. In the end when you add js-minification you will have a footprint of maybe 20-30KB i guess.
munificent 14y ago
The JS output that gets generated from a Dart program isn't just "dart_size * multiplier", it's "dart_size * multiplier + constant". So, when you see a tiny Dart program being compiled to a large amount of JS, that doesn't mean a large Dart program will compile to a huge amount of JS, it just means that the constant is dwarfing the multiplier. The constant is coming from the runtime library (or, more accurately, the portions of the runtime library that your program uses). That's relatively fixed so as your Dart program gets larger, the overhead of that becomes relatively smaller. The actual code-size multiplier when going from Dart -> JavaScript is actually fairly small and getting smaller over time. In some cases, we may actually compile Dart code to less JavaScript code because of things like dead code elimination and constant folding. JavaScript code size is something that we consider a core metric for dart2js and we're constantly working to reduce it.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  Of course. I'm just a little concerned about how easy it is to inflate a program's size in Dart by including another core library.
  - munificent 14y ago
    That's true of every language, though, isn't it? If you use libraries, your app gets bigger.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
      I suppose so, I guess I'm too used to dynamic, interpreted languages that don't need to include the standard library in the output.