4 ms·

I think random, serialized paper ballots are the way to go. When the polls close you know the serial numbers of every vote cast, so no new serial numbers should

I think random, serialized paper ballots are the way to go. When the polls close you know the serial numbers of every vote cast, so no new serial numbers should be added to that unless a very good reason. Keep them or destroy them afterwards is another issue, but it's a step in the right direction. I have some distrust in the American voting system, first with the computerized systems, but also that federal elections are run at the state level. With so many states and jurisdictions, I can't help but feel that fraud is happening. If the federal elections process was truly federalized, and funded if it is not already, managed and controlled by the federal government, then I think there could be greater control and security.

zie 2y ago
Go be a poll worker in your local election. See if you change your mind.
saxonww 2y ago
What do you do when duplicate serial numbers start showing up? I'm assuming you won't know who was issued which serial number, and if it's truly randomized you wouldn't even know where they were sent.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  Then you have clear proof of election fraud and the FBI, NSA, etc can get to work. Invalidate the election results and do a new one.
  - macintux 2y ago
    > Invalidate the election results and do a new one. The chaos that would ensue from this is staggering.
    - zo1 2y ago
      Much better to just deny it till after the new government is in, then make a nothing-burger out of all the news that is reported "afterwards"? Meanwhile, 50% of your country is disenfranchised for X-years because it was "less chaos" to just accept the vote and move on.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - artificialLimbs 2y ago
    'Just do a new election' is not a valid fallback.
    - kmoser 2y ago
      Not valid why? Lack of political will, or logistically unfeasible?
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    How would they "get to work"? And your proposed resolution means someone could DoS an election by copying their ballot and submitting it.
  - SubiculumCode 2y ago
    For one duplicate?
ForHackernews 2y ago
https://www.cpr.org/2024/10/08/vg-2024-how-your-vote-gets-counted-in-colorado/ https://www.cpr.org/2024/10/08/vg-2024-how-your-vote-gets-co... Colorado ballot envelopes already have a bar code - essentially your "serial number". I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because everyone who thinks there's widespread election fraud seems to not know anything about how elections work.
- EasyMark 2y ago
  Virtually all the election deniers live in a sphere of unreality where they only listen to what their politicians/keepers tell them, they don't care about reality.
- akira2501 2y ago
  > who thinks there's widespread election fraud seems to not know anything about how elections work. Does your knowledge imply the system is perfect? Is there more than one type of voter fraud? Do we mean just one or two particular federal elections or all elections at every level? What about internal party elections, have those all been extremely fair and above board lately? There's obvious advantages to perpetrating this class of fraud. Historically we know this fraud has interfered in all types of elections at all levels. Why would this not continue to be a target? I mean, even in your link, Step 1 includes mailing ballots in. Even recently we've seen the simple flaws in this insecure mechanism. How could you have such a level of confidence in this system? The fact the smart and well meaning people do is all the more reason to engage this subject more rigorously. Perhaps a more generous interpretation to people making these claims is to understand that we are still not doing a good enough job at making our elections secure, easy, free and fair. For Hacker News this should easily be understood to be a technical challenge and one that the USA has yet again completely failed to succeed at.
  - ForHackernews 2y ago
    It's not a technical challenge, it's a sociological one. No amount of technical security features or published explanations will convince a group of people who have already decided they are being screwed by "the system". I do agree that America is failing this test.
SubiculumCode 2y ago
The last thing we need is to Federalize voting. Our system is robust BECAUSE it is local. The last thing I'd want is a Federal system under a President's influence.
hollerith 2y ago
Can you think of a reason why the people who wrote the rules we have now would want to avoid putting federal elected officials in charge or running federal elections?

zie 2y ago

Go be a poll worker in your local election. See if you change your mind.

saxonww 2y ago

What do you do when duplicate serial numbers start showing up? I'm assuming you won't know who was issued which serial number, and if it's truly randomized you wouldn't even know where they were sent.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago
Then you have clear proof of election fraud and the FBI, NSA, etc can get to work. Invalidate the election results and do a new one.
- macintux 2y ago
  > Invalidate the election results and do a new one. The chaos that would ensue from this is staggering.
  - zo1 2y ago
    Much better to just deny it till after the new government is in, then make a nothing-burger out of all the news that is reported "afterwards"? Meanwhile, 50% of your country is disenfranchised for X-years because it was "less chaos" to just accept the vote and move on.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- artificialLimbs 2y ago
  'Just do a new election' is not a valid fallback.
  - kmoser 2y ago
    Not valid why? Lack of political will, or logistically unfeasible?
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  How would they "get to work"? And your proposed resolution means someone could DoS an election by copying their ballot and submitting it.
- SubiculumCode 2y ago
  For one duplicate?

ForHackernews 2y ago

https://www.cpr.org/2024/10/08/vg-2024-how-your-vote-gets-counted-in-colorado/ https://www.cpr.org/2024/10/08/vg-2024-how-your-vote-gets-co... Colorado ballot envelopes already have a bar code - essentially your "serial number". I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because everyone who thinks there's widespread election fraud seems to not know anything about how elections work.

EasyMark 2y ago
Virtually all the election deniers live in a sphere of unreality where they only listen to what their politicians/keepers tell them, they don't care about reality.
akira2501 2y ago
> who thinks there's widespread election fraud seems to not know anything about how elections work. Does your knowledge imply the system is perfect? Is there more than one type of voter fraud? Do we mean just one or two particular federal elections or all elections at every level? What about internal party elections, have those all been extremely fair and above board lately? There's obvious advantages to perpetrating this class of fraud. Historically we know this fraud has interfered in all types of elections at all levels. Why would this not continue to be a target? I mean, even in your link, Step 1 includes mailing ballots in. Even recently we've seen the simple flaws in this insecure mechanism. How could you have such a level of confidence in this system? The fact the smart and well meaning people do is all the more reason to engage this subject more rigorously. Perhaps a more generous interpretation to people making these claims is to understand that we are still not doing a good enough job at making our elections secure, easy, free and fair. For Hacker News this should easily be understood to be a technical challenge and one that the USA has yet again completely failed to succeed at.
- ForHackernews 2y ago
  It's not a technical challenge, it's a sociological one. No amount of technical security features or published explanations will convince a group of people who have already decided they are being screwed by "the system". I do agree that America is failing this test.

SubiculumCode 2y ago

The last thing we need is to Federalize voting. Our system is robust BECAUSE it is local. The last thing I'd want is a Federal system under a President's influence.

hollerith 2y ago

Can you think of a reason why the people who wrote the rules we have now would want to avoid putting federal elected officials in charge or running federal elections?