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This shows why BYD developed their "e-axle" system.[1] The drive axle, differential, and motor are an integrated unit. There's an electronics box that connects

This shows why BYD developed their "e-axle" system.[1] The drive axle, differential, and motor are an integrated unit. There's an electronics box that connects the battery, the e-axle, and the charging port. It's controlled over CANbus. So there's a coherent standalone component BYD can reuse in many different vehicles. Which they are doing, and clobbering Detroit on price. [1] https://www.yolegroup.com/technology-outlook/whats-in-the-box-byds-8-in-1-electrification-system-at-a-glance/ https://www.yolegroup.com/technology-outlook/whats-in-the-bo...

weaksauce 2y ago
how repairable is such a design?
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  It isn’t inherently more difficult to make it more or less repairable. Repair ability is a design attribute that is planned for.
- magicalhippo 2y ago
  I guess a repair could mean swap it out, and the unit would get sent back to get refurbished, like what's commonly done with say alternators.
- Animats 2y ago
  There's an e-axle repair kit from Germany.[1] This kit is for a Schaeffler e-axle, and contains all the bearings and seals. If you have to take the axle apart to replace any of those, you may as well replace all of them. Third party E-axles are mostly for trucks, where power trains and truck bodies come from different manufacturers. Heavy trucks can be maintained for decades, and that market wants repair parts available. For a car, the powertrain bearings tend to outlast the useful life of most cars. [1] https://www.repxpert.com/en/eaxle https://www.repxpert.com/en/eaxle
wakawaka28 2y ago
>Which they are doing, and clobbering Detroit on price. Let's be real, their prices are lower because Chinese labor is cheaper. US companies have to pay US rates and import as much as they can rather than having it all made in the US.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Labor is under 10% of the cost of an electric car.
  - 0l 2y ago
    Is there a source on this? And is this the labor cost for the final product, or also that of all components?
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      The UAW puts it at 5-8%. Other sources put it higher, up to about 15%. But that's for combustion vehicles -- most sources put the labor component of EV's at 40-60% of that of combustion vehicles. It generally includes the labor for sub-assemblies, but not for components. Components are sourced globally, so manufacturers in different countries should not be paying substantially different prices for components. Certainly sometimes they do, but that's generally a tariff issue, not a labor issue. Not an expert, this is just based on most of an hour of random Googling.
      - criddell 2y ago
        Does labor include healthcare and pension costs? A high school teacher once told me that the most expensive part of a car is healthcare and pension costs. Road and Track reported on this a little while ago, no idea what the situation is today. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a9590/pension-costs-drive-gms-discount-prices/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a9590/pension-costs...
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    Although this may be true (I haven't found much to the contrary in a few minutes of searching", "raw materials" also involve labor. Facilities in the US are bound to cost more as well because property is so much more expensive. US auto workers and engineers make easily 10x as much as Chinese counterparts.
Schiendelman 2y ago
It's pretty disingenuous to argue that's why they are price competitive when there are so many bigger factors.
- pas 2y ago
  can you please elaborate on this? what are these factors? how do we know which factor contributes how much? thanks!
  - hawaiianbrah 2y ago
    The support they get from the Chinese government …
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      BYD et al got massive support from the Chinese government in the past, but most of that support is gone now, and little of what is left applies to exports. The US government's $7500 rebate is larger than what BYD gets per car.
      - Schiendelman 2y ago
        We don't know that at all.
        bryanlarsen 2y ago
        We know it is 17% or less, because of the EU investigation.
      - Qwertious 2y ago
        It's easier to register an EV in China than an ICE car, among other things - for instance, ICE cars must be left idle on a specific day of the week (determined from the car's license plate number), whereas EVs can be used the full 7 days a week.
beAbU 2y ago
If you read the earlier articles in this series you'll see that the motor, diff, motor controller, charge controller and inverter are all on a single 'stack', treated as a single unit in the car. This module is used in the Hyundai Kona, Kia e-Niro and Soul EV. Modular car design is nothing new and almost all carmakers thesedays do this.

weaksauce 2y ago

how repairable is such a design?

dghlsakjg 2y ago
It isn’t inherently more difficult to make it more or less repairable. Repair ability is a design attribute that is planned for.
magicalhippo 2y ago
I guess a repair could mean swap it out, and the unit would get sent back to get refurbished, like what's commonly done with say alternators.
Animats 2y ago
There's an e-axle repair kit from Germany.[1] This kit is for a Schaeffler e-axle, and contains all the bearings and seals. If you have to take the axle apart to replace any of those, you may as well replace all of them. Third party E-axles are mostly for trucks, where power trains and truck bodies come from different manufacturers. Heavy trucks can be maintained for decades, and that market wants repair parts available. For a car, the powertrain bearings tend to outlast the useful life of most cars. [1] https://www.repxpert.com/en/eaxle https://www.repxpert.com/en/eaxle

wakawaka28 2y ago

>Which they are doing, and clobbering Detroit on price. Let's be real, their prices are lower because Chinese labor is cheaper. US companies have to pay US rates and import as much as they can rather than having it all made in the US.

bryanlarsen 2y ago
Labor is under 10% of the cost of an electric car.
- 0l 2y ago
  Is there a source on this? And is this the labor cost for the final product, or also that of all components?
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    The UAW puts it at 5-8%. Other sources put it higher, up to about 15%. But that's for combustion vehicles -- most sources put the labor component of EV's at 40-60% of that of combustion vehicles. It generally includes the labor for sub-assemblies, but not for components. Components are sourced globally, so manufacturers in different countries should not be paying substantially different prices for components. Certainly sometimes they do, but that's generally a tariff issue, not a labor issue. Not an expert, this is just based on most of an hour of random Googling.
    - criddell 2y ago
      Does labor include healthcare and pension costs? A high school teacher once told me that the most expensive part of a car is healthcare and pension costs. Road and Track reported on this a little while ago, no idea what the situation is today. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a9590/pension-costs-drive-gms-discount-prices/ https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a9590/pension-costs...
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  Although this may be true (I haven't found much to the contrary in a few minutes of searching", "raw materials" also involve labor. Facilities in the US are bound to cost more as well because property is so much more expensive. US auto workers and engineers make easily 10x as much as Chinese counterparts.

Schiendelman 2y ago

It's pretty disingenuous to argue that's why they are price competitive when there are so many bigger factors.

pas 2y ago
can you please elaborate on this? what are these factors? how do we know which factor contributes how much? thanks!
- hawaiianbrah 2y ago
  The support they get from the Chinese government …
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    BYD et al got massive support from the Chinese government in the past, but most of that support is gone now, and little of what is left applies to exports. The US government's $7500 rebate is larger than what BYD gets per car.
    - Schiendelman 2y ago
      We don't know that at all.
      - bryanlarsen 2y ago
        We know it is 17% or less, because of the EU investigation.
    - Qwertious 2y ago
      It's easier to register an EV in China than an ICE car, among other things - for instance, ICE cars must be left idle on a specific day of the week (determined from the car's license plate number), whereas EVs can be used the full 7 days a week.

beAbU 2y ago

If you read the earlier articles in this series you'll see that the motor, diff, motor controller, charge controller and inverter are all on a single 'stack', treated as a single unit in the car. This module is used in the Hyundai Kona, Kia e-Niro and Soul EV. Modular car design is nothing new and almost all carmakers thesedays do this.