4 ms·

> I’d like us to try and be 10% more vulnerable than we normally would I would have reported manager to HR for this and if they didn't take action I would take

> I’d like us to try and be 10% more vulnerable than we normally would I would have reported manager to HR for this and if they didn't take action I would take company to tribunal. This is pure simple coercion into sharing personal data that then other workers could use against you. I can't see the world where sharing personal stuff at work is ever appropriate, let alone be subjected to peer pressure to share it.

wtfparanoid 2y ago
what kind of dystopian workplace do you go to where people are looking to use things against you? The jobs I stick with are the ones where colleagues have got each others back. All this zero-sum game playing toxicity is what ruins work for the collaborative pro-social people. Find a work place that doesn't reward that kind of behaviour.
- runarberg 2y ago
  I don’t know whether you are American or not, but I find it ironic that on a forum who’s demographic skews American, this sentiment of anti-individualism at the workplace is so widely shared. America is supposed to be this super-freedom, super-individualistic place. Except when you are a worker at a workplace. Then you are supposed to spend at least 40 hours a week (except you are supposed to want to spend more time than that; and most do [except they don’t want to]), you are supposed to leave your politics behind, don’t talk about politics at work, you are supposed to do everything your boss tells you without question, and certainly don’t bring in your morals. Your workplace is a dictatorship (in a freedom loving country) and you are not supposed to complain about it. You are supposed to like your work, so you are not even entitled to your feelings. And suddenly your workplace is supposed to be this communist utopia, where every worker has a task, and the work is supposed to make them happy, and the whole workplace has a comradery of peers. Except you are all making money for your boss (or worse, your shareholders) and only keep a tiny portion of what you produce, but you are not supposed to complain and definitely not supposed to unite in bargaining for better, only unite in being exploited (except you aren’t supposed to see it that way). The American workplace is probably as far away from the American dream as it possibly could be.
  - ryaniscool 2y ago
    First of all, you should be aware that Stripe was founded by two guys from Ireland and it's based in San Francisco. This is the epicenter of the American political left. This is the side of American politics that cares about worker's rights, treatment, etc. Ignoring that, your characterization isn't accurate at all for American software companies in my experience. I'm an American and I've worked overseas in Australia. In addition, most of the current technical team that I am currently on is based in the UK. If anything, I've found other western cultures to be more discouraging of openly challenging management decisions. However, the differences are very very small. Working for a UK/Australia/German company is exactly the same as working for an American company. The day-to-day culture depends a lot on the people who run the company rather than their nationality. Trust me, there are jerks everywhere in the world.
- varispeed 2y ago
  > what kind of dystopian workplace do you go to where people are looking to use things against you? Any corporate environment. You'll get stabbed in the back sooner or later. > where colleagues have got each others back. That doesn't sound healthy if people have to get each others back - usually means there are some bad actors that you'll need to cover up for. Do the job, be polite and leave ego at home. There is no need for politics, gossip and other meaningless activities. > work for the collaborative pro-social people. That sounds dystopian to me. I prefer to have social life outside of work, with actual friends that I choose, not HR.
  - FpUser 2y ago
    >"That sounds dystopian to me. I prefer to have social life outside of work, with actual friends that I choose, not HR." This. Companies doing social thing is nothing but trying to fool employees into feeling like they owe to company.
dist-epoch 2y ago
Suggesting people share 10% more of some vague stuff is not coercion by any definition of that word, especially since there is no way to prove how much % you shared.
Imustaskforhelp 2y ago
This isn't and shouldn't be the typical response to such things. The boss had also become vulnerable asking you to be 10% more vulnerable. I think I would respect it more than harsh cold calculating boss. And also the chinese gospel's taking its effect here , the post above this paraphrased it differently and this has taken it to completely different level. Nobody is forcing you with a gun to tell things or else you are fired the boss just said , " Hey if you are comfortable , lets try to be a little vulnerable " and if you didn't like it you could've said " hey boss , I appreciate your gesture but I really really wouldn't like to share it as it would be a violation of my privacy , hope you understand " This would probably be my approach if I was one of those people who hated boss asking him such thing but I don't. I think I like it.
- ahajxjxjxbx 2y ago
  Trust is earned. A person you don’t know immediately asking you to be vulnerable is predatory. Commonly seen in cults, frats, etc but at least you opt in to those (and can opt out). Agreeing to work with a new manager is putting you in a vulnerable enough state. Build that trust over time - you likely don’t even need to hear about coworkers failed marriages.
- varispeed 2y ago
  > The boss had also become vulnerable asking you to be 10% more vulnerable. That's really irrelevant. It's like taking your pants down, showing your privates and assuming your coworkers will do the same. Absolutely unacceptable especially when it comes from position of power, where workers may think that if they don't engage they'll get fired or won't get promotion. It's coercion. > the boss just said , " Hey if you are comfortable , lets try to be a little vulnerable " and if you didn't like it you could've said " hey boss , I appreciate your gesture but I really really wouldn't like to share it as it would be a violation of my privacy , hope you understand " This is never innocent. If someone's life depends on the job, they'll comply as they don't want to second guess if their refusal will lead to them end up being homeless. They'll share details they don't want to and get injured.
- jondlm 2y ago
  My boss shared first and was very much clear about it being optional. People bring a lot of context into these conversations and make a lot of assumptions. There is a lot of nuance here and that's tough to sit with.

wtfparanoid 2y ago

what kind of dystopian workplace do you go to where people are looking to use things against you? The jobs I stick with are the ones where colleagues have got each others back. All this zero-sum game playing toxicity is what ruins work for the collaborative pro-social people. Find a work place that doesn't reward that kind of behaviour.

runarberg 2y ago
I don’t know whether you are American or not, but I find it ironic that on a forum who’s demographic skews American, this sentiment of anti-individualism at the workplace is so widely shared. America is supposed to be this super-freedom, super-individualistic place. Except when you are a worker at a workplace. Then you are supposed to spend at least 40 hours a week (except you are supposed to want to spend more time than that; and most do [except they don’t want to]), you are supposed to leave your politics behind, don’t talk about politics at work, you are supposed to do everything your boss tells you without question, and certainly don’t bring in your morals. Your workplace is a dictatorship (in a freedom loving country) and you are not supposed to complain about it. You are supposed to like your work, so you are not even entitled to your feelings. And suddenly your workplace is supposed to be this communist utopia, where every worker has a task, and the work is supposed to make them happy, and the whole workplace has a comradery of peers. Except you are all making money for your boss (or worse, your shareholders) and only keep a tiny portion of what you produce, but you are not supposed to complain and definitely not supposed to unite in bargaining for better, only unite in being exploited (except you aren’t supposed to see it that way). The American workplace is probably as far away from the American dream as it possibly could be.
- ryaniscool 2y ago
  First of all, you should be aware that Stripe was founded by two guys from Ireland and it's based in San Francisco. This is the epicenter of the American political left. This is the side of American politics that cares about worker's rights, treatment, etc. Ignoring that, your characterization isn't accurate at all for American software companies in my experience. I'm an American and I've worked overseas in Australia. In addition, most of the current technical team that I am currently on is based in the UK. If anything, I've found other western cultures to be more discouraging of openly challenging management decisions. However, the differences are very very small. Working for a UK/Australia/German company is exactly the same as working for an American company. The day-to-day culture depends a lot on the people who run the company rather than their nationality. Trust me, there are jerks everywhere in the world.
varispeed 2y ago
> what kind of dystopian workplace do you go to where people are looking to use things against you? Any corporate environment. You'll get stabbed in the back sooner or later. > where colleagues have got each others back. That doesn't sound healthy if people have to get each others back - usually means there are some bad actors that you'll need to cover up for. Do the job, be polite and leave ego at home. There is no need for politics, gossip and other meaningless activities. > work for the collaborative pro-social people. That sounds dystopian to me. I prefer to have social life outside of work, with actual friends that I choose, not HR.
- FpUser 2y ago
  >"That sounds dystopian to me. I prefer to have social life outside of work, with actual friends that I choose, not HR." This. Companies doing social thing is nothing but trying to fool employees into feeling like they owe to company.

dist-epoch 2y ago

Suggesting people share 10% more of some vague stuff is not coercion by any definition of that word, especially since there is no way to prove how much % you shared.

Imustaskforhelp 2y ago

This isn't and shouldn't be the typical response to such things. The boss had also become vulnerable asking you to be 10% more vulnerable. I think I would respect it more than harsh cold calculating boss. And also the chinese gospel's taking its effect here , the post above this paraphrased it differently and this has taken it to completely different level. Nobody is forcing you with a gun to tell things or else you are fired the boss just said , " Hey if you are comfortable , lets try to be a little vulnerable " and if you didn't like it you could've said " hey boss , I appreciate your gesture but I really really wouldn't like to share it as it would be a violation of my privacy , hope you understand " This would probably be my approach if I was one of those people who hated boss asking him such thing but I don't. I think I like it.

ahajxjxjxbx 2y ago
Trust is earned. A person you don’t know immediately asking you to be vulnerable is predatory. Commonly seen in cults, frats, etc but at least you opt in to those (and can opt out). Agreeing to work with a new manager is putting you in a vulnerable enough state. Build that trust over time - you likely don’t even need to hear about coworkers failed marriages.
varispeed 2y ago
> The boss had also become vulnerable asking you to be 10% more vulnerable. That's really irrelevant. It's like taking your pants down, showing your privates and assuming your coworkers will do the same. Absolutely unacceptable especially when it comes from position of power, where workers may think that if they don't engage they'll get fired or won't get promotion. It's coercion. > the boss just said , " Hey if you are comfortable , lets try to be a little vulnerable " and if you didn't like it you could've said " hey boss , I appreciate your gesture but I really really wouldn't like to share it as it would be a violation of my privacy , hope you understand " This is never innocent. If someone's life depends on the job, they'll comply as they don't want to second guess if their refusal will lead to them end up being homeless. They'll share details they don't want to and get injured.
jondlm 2y ago
My boss shared first and was very much clear about it being optional. People bring a lot of context into these conversations and make a lot of assumptions. There is a lot of nuance here and that's tough to sit with.