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Rivian's chief software officer says in-car buttons are 'an anomaly'
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jqpabc123 2y ago“It’s a bug. It’s not a feature" Sorry, I have to disagree. Touch screen is a bug, not a feature because it requires a shift in focus away from driving. Physical controls provide tactical feedback and spatial assurance that the correct function has been selected sight unseen. I shouldn't need to look away from the road to enable signals or wipers. That said, I do agree with the potential of voice control for nonessential functions such as environmental or entertainment.
- beretguy 2y agoAnd what if somebody loses their voice? What if somebody has strong accent, like people in the south? What are about people who can't talk? What about people who stutter? What if you are talking in the phone and need to change "voice only" setting?
- jqpabc123 2y agoStop the car --- then use a touch screen backup for these *NONESSENTIAL* functions. Stopping is inconvenient but so is an accident. Using a touch screen phone while driving is illegal in most areas for a reason. Building the touch screen into the car doesn't negate the logic.
- happytoexplain 2y agoI'm confused by your tone - you just said you think touch screens are bad. Wouldn't the answer to the parent be that there should be physical controls for everything as a backup?
- jqpabc123 2y agoI object to touch screens being used for ESSENTIAL controls needed to drive the vehicle --- primarily for safety and convenience reasons. Fiddling with a touch screen while driving is fundamentally bad and even illegal in many cases. A competent, experienced driver should be able to instinctively operate any vehicle without training, reference material or questions. Anything other than this is a sign of basic design failure in my opinion. I don't object to touch screen being used for things like setup, configuration, maintenance, troubleshooting, navigation and as an alternative backup to physical or voice controls while the vehicle is STOPPED. I'm open to the idea of voice being used to replace some NONESSENTIAL manual controls. This could actually be a safety improvement. For example, lots of accidents happen when people try to fiddle with the radio.
- RajT88 2y agoIf they will make voice control not require an internet connection anyways (spoiler: they won't). It should also be an add-on function to manual buttons. Nothing in a car ever should only voice control, and it should be able to be disabled for some functions. Imagine an unruly child: "Car, disable child locks!"
- INTPenis 2y agoThis is where government regulation is immportant. EV manufacturers want to push innovation, and that's cool, but we're talking about vehicles here, things that might be the difference between life and death. So let them play in their prototypes, but don't let them fill the roads with dangerous voice assisted vehicles that will fail in critical moments.
- Etheryte 2y agoMe: "Rivian, turn on the wipers." Rivian: "Sure thing, now playing George Michael!"
- viraptor 2y agoThis sounds like a joke, but I experienced literally this in my Prius: - Navigate home. - Ok, showing nearby ski resorts.
- beretguy 2y agoSo... did you end up going to a ski resort? How was it?
- scotty79 2y agoI once asked "what's my destination?" to confirm and got answer "how about New Zealand?" To which I responded "I fscking hope not yet." because for me New Zealand is the mythical land far away that I'm gonna escape to when the civilisation mostly collapses due to for example all out war in Europe or the Pacific.
- r0ckarong 2y agoDelusional. Have these people never spoken to a human? The LAST thing, even less than fumbling on some touch interface in a moving vehicle is trying to vocalize commands. Music too loud? VOLUME DOWN. VOLUME! DOWN!
- beretguy 2y agoDown! Even more down! Keep going down!
- mnkypete 2y agoEver had a (lightly) sleeping baby in the car? Glad it finally got to sleep after hours worth of crying? Maybe, just maybe, I don't want to risk asking a voice assistant to turn up or down the AC. Scenario also works for sleeping co-driver. Buttons are fine. Even though I prefer driving EVs, the reliance on touchscreen/ voice for everything is just annoying. At least for the most common functions like volume control, AC and stuff.
- beretguy 2y agoThis is just the tip of the iceberg example.
- Gud 2y agoYea, it’s a big disadvantage for EVs that they are being sold with crappy touchscreen instead of buttons and dials, and even the charging is a worse experience than filling gas because of ridiculous apps that barely works! I was driving a Polestar in the UK, fantastic car, but many chargers wouldn’t work because of my non-UK debit cards… tried many of them, for months.
- drcongo 2y agoNow imagine being the designated driver on a night out and all your drunk friends shouting commands at the car while you're trying to drive. "Rivian, turn the headlights off!".
- throwoutway 2y agoKids: "roll all the windows down, turn on hazards, and clean the windows!"
- freefaler 2y agoPeople prefer physical buttons, because primates evolved in the physical world with hardware to use other hardware for a reason :) The receptors in our hardware can identify a hardware button without looking... especially while driving a 2 ton object trying not to hit anyone. Getting his logic to the extreme, we won't have computer keyboards, just a glass slabs with picture of buttons. Ohh... shit, the war is lost, my phone is exactly that. In 5 years only super premium computer keyboards will have hardware keys I reckon. For what I've read the problem aren't the buttons, but the cabling they really hate.
- hggigg 2y agoI think this only confirms he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. These auto designers really need to spend a few months at the NTSB or an air accident investigation agency before they are allowed to design cars.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- maxerickson 2y agoThere's some chance that the chief software officer isn't dictating the overall design of the controls. Not a great sign that he's all in on touch + voice of course, just that he may not be dictating what is actually in the vehicle.
- rvba 2y agoHow can we show that we disagree apart from ignoring threir products. Short selling?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- alkonaut 2y agoDid they really anchor this idea with consumers? Or is it one of those “consumers just want a faster horse” things where they believe they can present users with what they really want rather than what they say they want? Because I have never used a voice assistant even to set a timer when cooking pasta and I probably will never speak to a machine if there is an awkward button I could use instead. I understand buttons are ugly and expensive. But a few buttons and dials for everything you need while driving seems like the perfect balance. You only need climate, wipers, lights, sound level, and that’s about it. Nav, setup, media selection etc can be touch.
- mnkypete 2y agoFor what it's worth, I do regularly set timers with Alexa when cooking, and I still hate using voice controls in the car... With timers the alternative is also a multi step process with probably smudgy hands, whereas just one button press to turn down AC will evolve into "turn down more, turn down more" with voice
- alkonaut 2y agoIt’s a multi step process with voice too though (at least if you have to enable the listening with a button, because there is zero chance I’m having a hot mic in my pocket or on a shelf somewhere).
- croes 2y agoBottom line: Stay away from Rivian, they don’t have a clue what customers want.
- ahartmetz 2y agoHeck, even if customers want it, it's objectively (as in: it kills people) a terrible idea.
- throwaway48476 2y agoI'm surprised NHTSA doesn't mandate that the touchscreen be locked out while the car is moving because it requires visual attention to operate. I think future people will look back on this blunder and consider it up there with leaded gasoline.
- duggan 2y agoWhy not both? I like the buttons in my (now practically antique) 2007 Mazda 3, but voice sounds miles better than updating my car and ending up with a janky touch screen that takes my focus off the road, the layout and responsiveness changing randomly with OTA updates. However this: > For instance, he said if a driver says “I’m hungry” the in-car assistant should be able to quickly direct them to a nearby restaurant that they might prefer. sounds like more adtech hellscape.
- almatabata 2y agoWill it work if the company stops supporting it after 6 years or goes bankrupt? (https://www.businessinsider.com/fisker-owners-describe-chaos-to-keep-cars-running-after-bankruptcy-2024-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/fisker-owners-describe-chaos...) This obsession with replacing robust proven solutions with brittle technological toys will never cease to amaze me. I expect the true reason lies in the fact that they can charge a recurring fee for the AI assistant but not for the buttons. I also wonder about the impact on the car battery. There is no way a call to a backend uses less energy than a car button or a touchscreen.
- bell-cot 2y ago> This obsession with replacing robust proven solutions with brittle technological toys will never cease to amaze me. A certain fraction of potential customers are neophiles and contrarians, who'll eagerly buy anything that's conspicuously new & different. That'll give you an initial burst of sales...but what next? In many types of consumer products, you can crank out something new & different every week or few. In automotive, not so much.
- touwer 2y ago“It’s a bug. It’s not a feature” Typical Silicon Valley blah blah. The button is an evolution. A solution to a problem from before computers and voice assistants were a thing.
- asdefghyk 2y agoIn my opinion, Id Say " Lets be clear - replacement of buttons with touch screens is driven by manufacturer lowering costs. "
- beretguy 2y ago"... and all profits from that going to CEO". Gotta finish your sentences, men.
- Freak_NL 2y agoI am orienting myself on going from a gas hob in the kitchen to an electric induction one. Plenty of choice now of course, but what immediately triggered both my wife's and my own sense of “I want one of those” was looking at the few modern cookers with actual knobs on them, just like our gas hob has. I've used induction hobs, but I've never found them pleasant to control with the touch controls. There is something so utterly ergonomic and pleasant about physical knobs and buttons. It doesn't matter that they perform digital rather than analogue, mechanical actions. It's a premium feature, but at least it exists. It's disheartening that this is considered either a premium feature or branded as outdated.
- throwaway48476 2y agoThe reason a lot of induction cook tops don't have knobs is because they're worried it will be bumped and accidentally turned on. Good knobs will have detents for off. https://www.samsung.com/us/support/range-knob-kit/ https://www.samsung.com/us/support/range-knob-kit/
- echoangle 2y agoHow does this specifically apply to induction devices? Wouldn’t all cook tops not have knobs then?
- thunfischbrot 2y agoThe principle of an induction stove prevents it from heating up without cookware placed on it. On top of that, any induction stove I‘ve used detects if it‘s turned on without cookware and turns itself off after a couple of seconds. It doesn‘t get safer than this.
- Freak_NL 2y agoAbsolutely. Compared to gas knobs which when turned on without igniting the flame will just flood your home with an inflammable gas. Still, I have one of those now, and beyond the usual “did I turn the gas off?” frittering on holiday, this is never an issue. In fact, most households in the Netherlands still have this type of hob or stove (the percentage is lower but still considerable in many other countries).
- underseacables 2y agoI prefer more physical buttons, not less, and I think it's safer even if it adds cost.
- beretguy 2y agoMoney from lowering cost goes to CEO anyways, so who cares.
- sans_souse 2y agoTactile buttons allow a driver to keep their eyes on the road while making adjustments. People making these decisions likely only ever ride in the back seats of luxury black cars. Something needs to change, because the Idiocracy Slow Burn has been going on too long and it's only getting worse.
- beretguy 2y ago> People making these decisions likely only ever ride in the back seats of luxury black cars Nuh, it's simpler than that. He makes money from cars not having buttons, that's all. He says whatever he has to say to increase his profits, regardless of whether he believes it, or whether it makes sense.
- nemo44x 2y agoIt takes longer and requires more effort for me to vocally ask my car to change the fan/temp/seat (heat,cooling,position)/etc than to simply bump a switch/knob. I love a screen for configuring my front dash and another one for maps, certain settings, etc. But you absolutely should have tactile interfaces for various things.
- arpinum 2y agoStellantis' chief designer said something similar yesterday, believing voice controls are the future: https://www.youtube.com/live/NdVdr9mU_XA?si=P4keeOK9uXb2TgXc&t=2531 https://www.youtube.com/live/NdVdr9mU_XA?si=P4keeOK9uXb2TgXc...
- mytailorisrich 2y agoThey all copy each other and move in the same direction. After touch screens everywhere I fear this means the next wave will be voice control everywhere...
- mock-possum 2y agoGive me buttons, give me knobs, give me sliders, give me levers, give me switches.I if I can’t operate my car systems by feel, then I can’t operate them while I’m driving. First thing I did with my current car was replace the stereo with one that has physical playback control buttons, a physical volume knob, and Bluetooth. God I can’t stand touchscreens in cars.
- fuzzfactor 2y agoWouldn't that be because decent vehicles are an anomaly?
- beretguy 2y agoRivian's chief software officer is an anomaly.
- diblasio 2y agoIt's interesting to see all the comments about how physical buttons help keep your eyes on the road, but I’ve actually had the opposite experience. I'm probably not the typical driver, though—I tend to set everything just the way I want before starting a trip. While driving, I only adjust basic controls like the air conditioning, wipers, blinkers, and cruise control, all of which I can do in my Tesla without taking my eyes off the road. Recently, I drove a Volvo and a Polestar and found that using physical buttons required me to look down to see what I was pressing. Even after over 20 hours of driving, I couldn’t adapt back to physical buttons scattered across the dashboard. I really missed the streamlined, contextual controls I’m used to.
- epolanski 2y agoYeah, I can't relate even a bit with any of this. I've got a full analog Fiat Punto 2017 and almost fully digital VW Polo 2024 and I find the second one more dangerous, distracting, I just can't but hate it (I know it might be me). When I lease cars abroad the more digital they are, the more complex I find them to use and the more annoyed I am. To be honest, pretty much everything that gets more digital I hate it, even more than cars it applies to house appliances. Wi-fi connected dish washers, smartphone-controlled ovens, smart fridges, they create more problems while solving made up ones.
- diblasio 2y agoThis is why choice is good in the market. What’s dangerous and distracting for you may be comfortable for me. Funny also that you mentioned connected devices as well. Recently a physical button died on my washer and I was able to still use it through home assistant integration while I waited for service.
- epolanski 2y agoThere is no choice, everything's moving to digital because it's cheaper. Tesla literally changed their entire UX and UI from one day to the other confusing my in-law for weeks. What used to be standard icons on all cars on analog knobs and buttons are now stylized bs all different from car to car. Every car I need to learn its own menus and try to find where are things hidden, as someone who has to lease cars often I truly hate it. Your washer example is comedy because it either confirms that it's yet another digital crap for something like this to happen. Never had good washers/fridges or whatever had their physical buttons or knobs break bar a stove one in 37 years of my life because of an accident, and fixing it was few euros without the need of service.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mytailorisrich 2y ago"Hey car, turn on the, hmm, front lights but not on full if you know what I mean" is something that will need handled more often than one might assume... not easy.
- jgalt212 2y agoThis guy's opinions are a recipe for inferior product design. Maybe someone inside of Rivian can pitch him on programmable buttons. This way drivers still get the physical buttons and switches they need, but the chief software office can still preserve and grown his corporate fiefdom--which is what this is all about, I fear.
- fafhnir 2y agoI have more than enough trouble to tuch any buttons in an fancy ui which is changing after every software-update. you have to search them, then you have to touch them correctly, all while the car is shaking or whatever. And all that while you have better use for your eyes in keeping it straight out of the car and observing the traffic outside. Physical buttons can be "feeled". In the dark, when you know where they are and your muscle-memory got used to their position any you can keep your eyes ot in the traffic.
- throwxxsa 2y agoBe thankful. It's creating few software engineer /s
- eesmith 2y ago> he said if a driver says “I’m hungry” the in-car assistant should be able to quickly direct them to a nearby restaurant that they might prefer. Sounds like loner consumerism to me. What if the driver making a statement to someone else in the car? Does it respond only to the driver, or also to the bored kid wanting food simply as a distraction? Why suggest a restaurant instead of, say, the sandwiches the driver brought? Who gets to prioritize which restaurant to mention? Why suggest a restaurant and not grocery store? Or, make a statement like "you are five minutes from home, you can wait", or "what? You just had lunch 45 minutes ago and you've been complaining about your weight, so drink some water instead."
- fragmede 2y agoYou've figured out why Google maps doesn't cost you money to use for directions.
- eesmith 2y agoWhen someone taught me that 15 years ago was when I started my path away from using Google. What's left are Google Scholar and Google Translate.
- kergonath 2y ago> Who gets to prioritize which restaurant to mention? That’s an easy one! Whatever restaurant or fast-food chain paid the most, obviously. That’s be triple-dipping: get money for the car, get money from the “customer” because obviously such premium features require a subscription, and then get money from businesses who want to attract the “customer”. The best thing is that you can do the same with service stations. Or car parks.
- kyleee 2y agoOr perhaps it could administer an Ozempic shot to anyone mentioning they’re hungry
- ajb 2y agoI wonder how hard it would be to design an EV like a horse and carriage, each with their own wheels. So that you could buy the best "horse" and still have a "carriage" designed how you like, instead of by idiots like this. And you could swap out the horse for longer journeys.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jacknews 2y ago"Ideally, you would want to interact with your car through voice. " ridiculous. "turn the volume down!" might not work too well for example. And are we expected to say "high beam", "low beam", "indicate left" etc constantly?
- flax 2y agoI'm really glad to hear a car exec explicitly state his opinions on this. Now I know that Rivian is dedicated to producing a product that I would absolutely hate to use, and I can eliminate them from my future car purchasing searches.
- bathtub365 2y agoIt makes me wonder where else they are making wildly wrong and dangerous decisions in their design and manufacturing processes.
- lxgr 2y agoGood point. The problem with cars is that their design flaws might affect you even if you never even get into a given model yourself...
- ElectronBadger 2y agoTouchscreen/voice control are good mostly for manufacturers, since they allow reducing production costs while increasing profit. We must not allow them trying to convince us that their benefit is ours.
- albertopv 2y ago"you would want to interact with your car through voice" I stopped reading at this insanity. I'm usually listening music or radio, or talking to other passengers, I can interact with the car with easier, flawless and much faster buttons.
- satisfice 2y agoHis brain is anomalous! Geez. Humans have hands. Our hands are built-in, highly flexible, comfortable means of controlling things. I want buttons for my fingers to press. I want haptic interfaces. Voice has to contend with other sounds and other uses of voice in the car. You ought to be able to drive a car if you lose your voice. If you can’t push buttons, though, you should not be driving.
- johnea 2y agoFire that guy immediately! or, Why I'd never drive a rivian...
- ofrzeta 2y agoWell, he's the "software officer", so what's he supposed to say. Everyone else knows that tactile buttons are great.