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Of all of those reasons, malicious compliance and plausible deniability seem the least likely to me. With and from what, exactly? I get being upset at Apple fo

Of all of those reasons, malicious compliance and plausible deniability seem the least likely to me. With and from what, exactly? I get being upset at Apple for e.g. 30% take on in-app purchases. But what exactly would they be trying to do by making it complex to control their speakers?

userbinator 2y ago
But what exactly would they be trying to do by making it complex to control their speakers? Making it harder for alternative OSes to use their hardware without accidentally damaging it, further cementing macOS' position as the only OS to be trusted. It's similar to their war against third-party repair shops by deliberately making it difficult to replace parts, even with genuine ones --- see my second link about the iPhone 12 camera. This is the automotive equivalent of adding sensors and ECU firmware that detects if the engine is using the manufacturer's proprietary oil, and subtly changing the parameters to decrease power and fuel economy, increase emissions, and/or shorten the life of the engine if it isn't. Then blaming third-party repair shops when customers complain.
- imwillofficial 2y ago
  Considering how well Apple speakers perform for their size, I would say you’re making a huge leap not supported by evidence. They make and sell more speakers than any other company on earth and are routinely praised for their quality to size ratio.
- josephg 2y ago
  > Making it harder for alternative OSes to use their hardware without accidentally damaging it, further cementing macOS' position as the only OS to be trusted. If apple wanted to kill asahi linux, they wouldn't have had to lift a finger. Its the opposite - Apple engineers have needed to do several small things to keep the door open to easily run 3rd party operating systems on their computers. Remember, a modern mac has essentially identical hardware as an ipad. Apple has locked down the entire boot process and uses digital signatures all through the boot chain. They actively changed how macs boot to make sure things like asahi linux can run on their computers at all. I don't think they deserve special praise for that. But it does make it a stretch to claim their speakers were intentionally designed hurt linux-on-mac. If they wanted to stop asahi linux, they had plenty of much easier, much more effective ways to do so.
  - m4rtink 2y ago
    Sounds like "be glad they gave you some bones from the table" instead, you know, the company providing the actual proper means for users to reliably run whatever on the hardware they bought, not just the manufacturers blessed OS. Sometimes I wonder if it really makes sense to spend so much time to do the work Apple should have done in the first place & with no guarantee it will even work after a firmware upgrade or on the next model. Spending the same effort on more open platforms or open hardware efforts might be wiser in the long term.
    - doix 2y ago
      On one hand I agree with you, on the other hand I'm happy they are taking the effort to do this because it will reduce e-waste. When those MacBooks no longer receive updates, they can get a second life thanks to this work.
    - josephg 2y ago
      Yes, I did say in my comment that I don’t think they deserve special praise for making a computer a computer. I have complicated feelings about it all too. On one hand, I wish my Apple devices were more open: I think the App Store tax is anticompetitive abuse of a monopoly. I have an expectation of actually owning the things I buy, and I don’t feel that way about the software ecosystem on my iPhone. On the other hand, I adore the security and cross-application sandboxing that iOS brings. I wish Linux had more ways to sandbox applications from one another - since it’s clear that “trust all computer programs” is an insanely idiotic policy in 2024. And “implicitly trust all code” is de facto how Linux, npm, cargo, etc all run today. My comment was in response to the idea that the speakers are maliciously designed to hurt asahi Linux, which just seems obviously wrong given how much power Apple has over their devices. They could completely kill asahi Linux with a flick of the wrist if they ever want to. There’s no way that’s the reason for their complex speaker setup.
      - userbinator 2y ago
        My comment was in response to the idea that the speakers are maliciously designed to hurt asahi Linux, which just seems obviously wrong given how much power Apple has over their devices. They could completely kill asahi Linux with a flick of the wrist if they ever want to. There’s no way that’s the reason for their complex speaker setup. If they killed off asahi Linux, they would face far more backlash than if they just made it harder for them (with ostensible reasons why), while keeping it strictly worse than macOS.

userbinator 2y ago

But what exactly would they be trying to do by making it complex to control their speakers? Making it harder for alternative OSes to use their hardware without accidentally damaging it, further cementing macOS' position as the only OS to be trusted. It's similar to their war against third-party repair shops by deliberately making it difficult to replace parts, even with genuine ones --- see my second link about the iPhone 12 camera. This is the automotive equivalent of adding sensors and ECU firmware that detects if the engine is using the manufacturer's proprietary oil, and subtly changing the parameters to decrease power and fuel economy, increase emissions, and/or shorten the life of the engine if it isn't. Then blaming third-party repair shops when customers complain.

imwillofficial 2y ago
Considering how well Apple speakers perform for their size, I would say you’re making a huge leap not supported by evidence. They make and sell more speakers than any other company on earth and are routinely praised for their quality to size ratio.
josephg 2y ago
> Making it harder for alternative OSes to use their hardware without accidentally damaging it, further cementing macOS' position as the only OS to be trusted. If apple wanted to kill asahi linux, they wouldn't have had to lift a finger. Its the opposite - Apple engineers have needed to do several small things to keep the door open to easily run 3rd party operating systems on their computers. Remember, a modern mac has essentially identical hardware as an ipad. Apple has locked down the entire boot process and uses digital signatures all through the boot chain. They actively changed how macs boot to make sure things like asahi linux can run on their computers at all. I don't think they deserve special praise for that. But it does make it a stretch to claim their speakers were intentionally designed hurt linux-on-mac. If they wanted to stop asahi linux, they had plenty of much easier, much more effective ways to do so.
- m4rtink 2y ago
  Sounds like "be glad they gave you some bones from the table" instead, you know, the company providing the actual proper means for users to reliably run whatever on the hardware they bought, not just the manufacturers blessed OS. Sometimes I wonder if it really makes sense to spend so much time to do the work Apple should have done in the first place & with no guarantee it will even work after a firmware upgrade or on the next model. Spending the same effort on more open platforms or open hardware efforts might be wiser in the long term.
  - doix 2y ago
    On one hand I agree with you, on the other hand I'm happy they are taking the effort to do this because it will reduce e-waste. When those MacBooks no longer receive updates, they can get a second life thanks to this work.
  - josephg 2y ago
    Yes, I did say in my comment that I don’t think they deserve special praise for making a computer a computer. I have complicated feelings about it all too. On one hand, I wish my Apple devices were more open: I think the App Store tax is anticompetitive abuse of a monopoly. I have an expectation of actually owning the things I buy, and I don’t feel that way about the software ecosystem on my iPhone. On the other hand, I adore the security and cross-application sandboxing that iOS brings. I wish Linux had more ways to sandbox applications from one another - since it’s clear that “trust all computer programs” is an insanely idiotic policy in 2024. And “implicitly trust all code” is de facto how Linux, npm, cargo, etc all run today. My comment was in response to the idea that the speakers are maliciously designed to hurt asahi Linux, which just seems obviously wrong given how much power Apple has over their devices. They could completely kill asahi Linux with a flick of the wrist if they ever want to. There’s no way that’s the reason for their complex speaker setup.
    - userbinator 2y ago
      My comment was in response to the idea that the speakers are maliciously designed to hurt asahi Linux, which just seems obviously wrong given how much power Apple has over their devices. They could completely kill asahi Linux with a flick of the wrist if they ever want to. There’s no way that’s the reason for their complex speaker setup. If they killed off asahi Linux, they would face far more backlash than if they just made it harder for them (with ostensible reasons why), while keeping it strictly worse than macOS.