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> You said it yourself LOL what. It's called 'perspective', not 'whataboutism'. 'Whataboutism' supposes a level of equivalence that does not exist here. West

> You said it yourself LOL what. It's called 'perspective', not 'whataboutism'. 'Whataboutism' supposes a level of equivalence that does not exist here. Westerners whining about Taiwan is like a serial robber complaining that their victim didn't capitulate.

Vecr 2y ago
Personally I'd support a supermajority process, similar to a US constitutional change, started in both mainland China and Taiwan so they both have the same constitution. Once that happens the merging of the countries could carefully proceed. I'm not sure how you're going to get both population, subdivision, and political supermajorities for the same new constitution in both countries though.
- surfpel 2y ago
  Hot take: China is rising. They’re clearly prioritizing the wellbeing of their people through infrastructure and social programs. They’ve also developed a reputation among the global south (as well as the majority of their neighbors, despite western media) as a benevolent “win-win” trading & investment partner. Given these developments, I think it’s possible that Taiwan will agree to some kind of “100 year transition” to full reunification in the future, once it becomes clear that they’re better off under PRC rule vs American occupation. They don’t even need the same constitution. Hong Kong has it’s own constitution. It’s not even a state, it’s literally just a city.
  - Vecr 2y ago
    The entire point of my solution is to prevent another HK situation. It's quite likely it still wouldn't work (deep state, backsliding, etc.), but it's a total no-go otherwise.
rootusrootus 2y ago
You're deluding yourself. You literally tried to turn a discussion about something the PRC likes to say into a discussion about the US. Why, exactly? Some notion that the PRC can say sweet lovely things while acting completely differently, and we should totally not criticize them because someone else has done something you view as equally bad? That is exactly a demonstration of whataboutism. It is a bad faith technique intended to derail the conversation and stop the criticism.
- surfpel 2y ago
  Take a hint from the Sagan quote in your bio. It’s because the conversation is ridiculous. Because I’m ashamed to be an American witnessing people trash a relatively poor country that actually takes care of its citizens when conditions are so bad in the US. When my tax dollars go to antagonizing nuclear armed Russia and committing various genocides, wasting resources on almost 1000 military bases abroad, but somehow I have to pay off students loans for a degree that not only ultimately benefits this country more than what I paid for it, but also could be easily paid for by reducing global military waste slightly. And that’s just the start. Have a little perspective yeah? Good for you that you’re so far removed from the material reality of most of the world, so that you can be detached from what’s going on, so you can ignore what the US does, so you can go after the WAY WAY WAY more peaceful China. Oh and BTW, Taiwan is a separatist territory from their civil war. If the US was to lose Hawaii in a civil war, what do you think they would do?? Except it’s worse than that because Taiwan becomes a blockade/choke point against China. China, a fairly peaceful developing country of 1.4 billion people who apparently needs to be choked out by a rich country of about 1/5th that. That’s psychotic. People really need to learn history and stop applying ridiculous double standards.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    Given its support for the Khmer Rouge, its invasion of Vietnam, its tacit support of the aggression against Ukraine, and its menacing actions against the Philippines, and its intimidation of expats abroad (nevermind what it threatens to do to Taiwan) -- I wouldn't put China in the "WAY WAY WAY more peaceful" category. It also isn't being "choked out" by anyone and never will be. On almost 1000 military bases abroad I know that must feel emotionally invigorating to believe, but it turns out it's just a number that gets copy-pasta'd around in order to get you riled up. If you do you homework on the number, you will quickly find (1) the larger number is for all worldwide facilities, the vast majority being in the US of course; and (2) the actual number of foreign "bases" is much smaller (e.g. 128 according to the Congressional Research Service), and many of these are still largely foreign-run and/or barely count as "bases" in any meaningful sense (the U.S. and/or NATO just has an office or a token presence there, etc). So reality is infinitely more boring and that's a huge bummer of course, but that's how life is unfortunately.

Vecr 2y ago

Personally I'd support a supermajority process, similar to a US constitutional change, started in both mainland China and Taiwan so they both have the same constitution. Once that happens the merging of the countries could carefully proceed. I'm not sure how you're going to get both population, subdivision, and political supermajorities for the same new constitution in both countries though.

surfpel 2y ago
Hot take: China is rising. They’re clearly prioritizing the wellbeing of their people through infrastructure and social programs. They’ve also developed a reputation among the global south (as well as the majority of their neighbors, despite western media) as a benevolent “win-win” trading & investment partner. Given these developments, I think it’s possible that Taiwan will agree to some kind of “100 year transition” to full reunification in the future, once it becomes clear that they’re better off under PRC rule vs American occupation. They don’t even need the same constitution. Hong Kong has it’s own constitution. It’s not even a state, it’s literally just a city.
- Vecr 2y ago
  The entire point of my solution is to prevent another HK situation. It's quite likely it still wouldn't work (deep state, backsliding, etc.), but it's a total no-go otherwise.

rootusrootus 2y ago

You're deluding yourself. You literally tried to turn a discussion about something the PRC likes to say into a discussion about the US. Why, exactly? Some notion that the PRC can say sweet lovely things while acting completely differently, and we should totally not criticize them because someone else has done something you view as equally bad? That is exactly a demonstration of whataboutism. It is a bad faith technique intended to derail the conversation and stop the criticism.

surfpel 2y ago
Take a hint from the Sagan quote in your bio. It’s because the conversation is ridiculous. Because I’m ashamed to be an American witnessing people trash a relatively poor country that actually takes care of its citizens when conditions are so bad in the US. When my tax dollars go to antagonizing nuclear armed Russia and committing various genocides, wasting resources on almost 1000 military bases abroad, but somehow I have to pay off students loans for a degree that not only ultimately benefits this country more than what I paid for it, but also could be easily paid for by reducing global military waste slightly. And that’s just the start. Have a little perspective yeah? Good for you that you’re so far removed from the material reality of most of the world, so that you can be detached from what’s going on, so you can ignore what the US does, so you can go after the WAY WAY WAY more peaceful China. Oh and BTW, Taiwan is a separatist territory from their civil war. If the US was to lose Hawaii in a civil war, what do you think they would do?? Except it’s worse than that because Taiwan becomes a blockade/choke point against China. China, a fairly peaceful developing country of 1.4 billion people who apparently needs to be choked out by a rich country of about 1/5th that. That’s psychotic. People really need to learn history and stop applying ridiculous double standards.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Given its support for the Khmer Rouge, its invasion of Vietnam, its tacit support of the aggression against Ukraine, and its menacing actions against the Philippines, and its intimidation of expats abroad (nevermind what it threatens to do to Taiwan) -- I wouldn't put China in the "WAY WAY WAY more peaceful" category. It also isn't being "choked out" by anyone and never will be. On almost 1000 military bases abroad I know that must feel emotionally invigorating to believe, but it turns out it's just a number that gets copy-pasta'd around in order to get you riled up. If you do you homework on the number, you will quickly find (1) the larger number is for all worldwide facilities, the vast majority being in the US of course; and (2) the actual number of foreign "bases" is much smaller (e.g. 128 according to the Congressional Research Service), and many of these are still largely foreign-run and/or barely count as "bases" in any meaningful sense (the U.S. and/or NATO just has an office or a token presence there, etc). So reality is infinitely more boring and that's a huge bummer of course, but that's how life is unfortunately.