3 ms·

Not to mention Apple's challenge with 30% AppStore tax for subscription revenue. My guess was that Apple is okay with Apps from third parties that tithe 1/3 of

Not to mention Apple's challenge with 30% AppStore tax for subscription revenue. My guess was that Apple is okay with Apps from third parties that tithe 1/3 of their subscription revenue but aren't willing to make a place for them if they don't "sing for their supper" as my Grandfather used to say.

fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago
On the flip side, Vision Pro has no apps and it may not be the biggest reason for its failure, but it’s a contributor that I don’t see changing. Apple’s main source of innovation is applying mafia tactics to software distribution.
- musicale 2y ago
  > Apple’s main source of innovation is applying mafia tactics to software distribution. Main source of innovation? What about the Mac, iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, Apple watch, AirPods and M1 MacBook Air, all of which transformed their product categories? Not just because of the hardware, but also because of the hardware-software integration. Even Apple's failed innovations (Apple Vision, etc.) are interesting products that push the envelope.
  - simonh 2y ago
    Yes, but Apple has always been ahead on technology compared to everyone else, so that doesn’t count anymore. Or something.
  - hnlmorg 2y ago
    I don’t think you’re reading the GPs point very charitably. They’re clearly talking about recent innovations that generate revenue. Also I think you’re overreacting with some of your examples there. You seem to be conflating “successful” with “innovative”. The two terms aren’t mutually inclusive.
- brookst 2y ago
  As a software developer who made good money reaching hundreds of thousands of people through the app store where the old “put up a website and buy advertising” model might have netted me single-digit thousands of sales, I am always surprised at the white knights telling me I got no value from paying 30% of revenue. If the app store is “mafia tactics”, I can’t even imagine how demonic things like wholesalers mist be.
  - moooo99 2y ago
    > I am always surprised at the white knights telling me I got no value from paying 30% of revenue. Wether or not the 30% is proportional to the value you get by being on the App Store depends on your situation. That is why choice is a great thing.
    - no_wizard 2y ago
      Big corporations get less benefits than small ones. This is missing from the conversation, is on average, smaller corporations can better keep via the App Store model vs the open software market, because it allows for focused marketing on a fair playing field
  - chongli 2y ago
    The issue with the App Store model is that it's just another platform to market yourself on. In your case, you benefitted from a first-mover (or early-mover) advantage and did well. Over time the App Store becomes more and more saturated with apps and so the value to developers goes down. This is no different from the web! It's merely offset by a few decades. If you had put up your website back in the early 90's and were judicious about advertising back then, you might've been a Fortune 500 company (depending on your business niche, of course)!
arcticbull 2y ago
macOS has no such restrictions as it does not require the App Store.
- newaccount74 2y ago
  But macOS requires app notarisation. They again made it harder to run un-notarised apps this year. If you look at the iOS side, it's clear that Apple has no qualms adding content restrictions for app notarisation, and it is more than just a malware check. It could be just a question of time until Apple decides to stop notarising Mac apps that do not use App Store payments.
  - dahart 2y ago
    Meh, Apple might be a little ahead of others, but all mainstream OSes and stores are basically headed this direction already. It’s just part modern security, part quality control, and part family & work friendliness. Most people on both sides actually want a walled garden. There will probably always be ways to run unsigned code and to get content that’s not approved by an app store, but maybe it’s fine if it’s ‘harder’ and not the default.
    - Pulcinella 2y ago
      Yeah Windows does the same thing. It's something indie game devs run into. If you release on Steam, Steam launches your game. Otherwise you have to pay a certificate authority to sign your game or Windows Smart Screen will do the same "this code is sketchy. Are you really really really sure you want to run it?" thing MacOS does for non-notarized apps.
  - arcticbull 2y ago
    Notarization isn’t the same, it just requires you have a developer certificate. There’s no restrictions on notarized apps that I’m aware of. It allows Apple to pull the cert if the app is found to be malware.
    - 2y ago

fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago

On the flip side, Vision Pro has no apps and it may not be the biggest reason for its failure, but it’s a contributor that I don’t see changing. Apple’s main source of innovation is applying mafia tactics to software distribution.

musicale 2y ago
> Apple’s main source of innovation is applying mafia tactics to software distribution. Main source of innovation? What about the Mac, iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, Apple watch, AirPods and M1 MacBook Air, all of which transformed their product categories? Not just because of the hardware, but also because of the hardware-software integration. Even Apple's failed innovations (Apple Vision, etc.) are interesting products that push the envelope.
- simonh 2y ago
  Yes, but Apple has always been ahead on technology compared to everyone else, so that doesn’t count anymore. Or something.
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  I don’t think you’re reading the GPs point very charitably. They’re clearly talking about recent innovations that generate revenue. Also I think you’re overreacting with some of your examples there. You seem to be conflating “successful” with “innovative”. The two terms aren’t mutually inclusive.
brookst 2y ago
As a software developer who made good money reaching hundreds of thousands of people through the app store where the old “put up a website and buy advertising” model might have netted me single-digit thousands of sales, I am always surprised at the white knights telling me I got no value from paying 30% of revenue. If the app store is “mafia tactics”, I can’t even imagine how demonic things like wholesalers mist be.
- moooo99 2y ago
  > I am always surprised at the white knights telling me I got no value from paying 30% of revenue. Wether or not the 30% is proportional to the value you get by being on the App Store depends on your situation. That is why choice is a great thing.
  - no_wizard 2y ago
    Big corporations get less benefits than small ones. This is missing from the conversation, is on average, smaller corporations can better keep via the App Store model vs the open software market, because it allows for focused marketing on a fair playing field
- chongli 2y ago
  The issue with the App Store model is that it's just another platform to market yourself on. In your case, you benefitted from a first-mover (or early-mover) advantage and did well. Over time the App Store becomes more and more saturated with apps and so the value to developers goes down. This is no different from the web! It's merely offset by a few decades. If you had put up your website back in the early 90's and were judicious about advertising back then, you might've been a Fortune 500 company (depending on your business niche, of course)!

arcticbull 2y ago

macOS has no such restrictions as it does not require the App Store.

newaccount74 2y ago
But macOS requires app notarisation. They again made it harder to run un-notarised apps this year. If you look at the iOS side, it's clear that Apple has no qualms adding content restrictions for app notarisation, and it is more than just a malware check. It could be just a question of time until Apple decides to stop notarising Mac apps that do not use App Store payments.
- dahart 2y ago
  Meh, Apple might be a little ahead of others, but all mainstream OSes and stores are basically headed this direction already. It’s just part modern security, part quality control, and part family & work friendliness. Most people on both sides actually want a walled garden. There will probably always be ways to run unsigned code and to get content that’s not approved by an app store, but maybe it’s fine if it’s ‘harder’ and not the default.
  - Pulcinella 2y ago
    Yeah Windows does the same thing. It's something indie game devs run into. If you release on Steam, Steam launches your game. Otherwise you have to pay a certificate authority to sign your game or Windows Smart Screen will do the same "this code is sketchy. Are you really really really sure you want to run it?" thing MacOS does for non-notarized apps.
- arcticbull 2y ago
  Notarization isn’t the same, it just requires you have a developer certificate. There’s no restrictions on notarized apps that I’m aware of. It allows Apple to pull the cert if the app is found to be malware.
  - 2y ago