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This definitely sucks. I feel similarly about e.g. the jailbreaking community: I appreciate the work they do and at the same time I very much wish it wasn't nec

This definitely sucks. I feel similarly about e.g. the jailbreaking community: I appreciate the work they do and at the same time I very much wish it wasn't necessary. If Apple and other companies like them were a little less greedy we could have far more nice things for free and Alyssa and other brilliant engineers could go work on other great projects. Also if regulators were a little more vigilant and a little less corrupt. Someday.

WD-42 2y ago
To me what makes it suck even more is the fact that Apple has no qualms exploiting FOSS themselves. BSD, WebKit, their new “game porting toolkit”. And look what they provide in return. It’s so gross.
- musicale 2y ago
  Apple does develop WebKit, Swift, and clang/llvm, as well as other things like open source ML models, but I understand what you're saying. One important lesson I've learned regarding open source is that companies absolutely love it when you work for them for free. Something I've learned about Apple is that one of their primary businesses is selling hardware with proprietary software running on it.
  - WD-42 2y ago
    Agree, at least WebKit can be used outside of Apple. They still did KHTML dirty though. Your point about working for free is right on the money. I get that asahi is probably intellectually stimulating to work on, but I couldn’t do it knowing I am essentially enriching a company that doesn’t have public benefit in mind.
    - musicale 2y ago
      Clang can definitely be used outside of Apple, and can even compile Linux. Swift technically can be used anywhere, though it is largely driven by Apple and laughs at backward compatibility. The people I know at Apple actually do have public benefit in mind. They believe in things like usability, privacy, accessibility, sustainability, etc. They don't want to replace you with intrusive AI (yet). And personally I like Apple's products and am using one right now. Unfortunately all large companies tend to turn into monsters that do their best to grind up resources - natural or human - in order to turn them into money. And the designer of the iPhone regrets turning us into zombies - that was not an intended effect.
      - ruthmarx 2y ago
        > And the designer of the iPhone regrets turning us into zombies - that was not an intended effect. People were already zombies. They just swapped out television for smart phones.
  - matheusmoreira 2y ago
    > companies absolutely love it when you work for them for free Which is why everyone should AGPLv3 their code.

WD-42 2y ago

To me what makes it suck even more is the fact that Apple has no qualms exploiting FOSS themselves. BSD, WebKit, their new “game porting toolkit”. And look what they provide in return. It’s so gross.

musicale 2y ago
Apple does develop WebKit, Swift, and clang/llvm, as well as other things like open source ML models, but I understand what you're saying. One important lesson I've learned regarding open source is that companies absolutely love it when you work for them for free. Something I've learned about Apple is that one of their primary businesses is selling hardware with proprietary software running on it.
- WD-42 2y ago
  Agree, at least WebKit can be used outside of Apple. They still did KHTML dirty though. Your point about working for free is right on the money. I get that asahi is probably intellectually stimulating to work on, but I couldn’t do it knowing I am essentially enriching a company that doesn’t have public benefit in mind.
  - musicale 2y ago
    Clang can definitely be used outside of Apple, and can even compile Linux. Swift technically can be used anywhere, though it is largely driven by Apple and laughs at backward compatibility. The people I know at Apple actually do have public benefit in mind. They believe in things like usability, privacy, accessibility, sustainability, etc. They don't want to replace you with intrusive AI (yet). And personally I like Apple's products and am using one right now. Unfortunately all large companies tend to turn into monsters that do their best to grind up resources - natural or human - in order to turn them into money. And the designer of the iPhone regrets turning us into zombies - that was not an intended effect.
    - ruthmarx 2y ago
      > And the designer of the iPhone regrets turning us into zombies - that was not an intended effect. People were already zombies. They just swapped out television for smart phones.
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  > companies absolutely love it when you work for them for free Which is why everyone should AGPLv3 their code.