5 ms·

I think I'm one of the last people using WSL1. I think everyone jumped to WSL2 because 2 is bigger than 1, but they're really different things. WSL1 lets me kee

I think I'm one of the last people using WSL1. I think everyone jumped to WSL2 because 2 is bigger than 1, but they're really different things. WSL1 lets me keep my files on the Windows side, let's my IDE (PHP storm) remain performant with no Linux to Windows file system overhead, but I still get to use all the Linux CLI tools. I still pay some overhead for that, but it's better than doing it the other way around and paying for every keystroke in my IDE. What I really want is a damn good Terminal/Emulator for Windows AND Linux that can run the same set of tools with zero overhead. Boggles my mind that everything is slow and janky to this day.

mrweasel 2y ago
Wait what? I'm not a Windows user, so I haven't used any version of WSL, but WSL 2 doesn't store the files on the Windows side? It seems to me that the whole "easy access to your Windows files in a Linux environment" was the point of WSL.
- roland35 2y ago
  Wsl 2 can access files in windows, but it is very slow.
  - nuancebydefault 2y ago
    With the benefit of Linux and its filesystem being super (natively) fast in WSL2. What I've very often done is use command line tools like compilers, search&replace etc inside WSL2, in a Windows terminal. You have the benefits of speed and all the CLI tools of the Linux world. And then have the GUIs, like vscode, running on Windows. Vscode has its server running on the WSL side, so still very good performance. Best of both worlds, since the GUIs and the CLIs are tightly integrated.
    - 8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
      That's the crux of the issue. Vscode works ok because you can run it as a server, but other IDEs (yes there are others) are slow.
- peterfirefly 2y ago
  WSL1 is really just a new system call interface for Windows. WSL2 uses "disks" emulated via image files that are stored as ordinary Windows files (but in a secret place). This makes most file I/O from inside WSL2 faster than from inside WSL1. WSL2 can use the Windows file system (and vice versa) via file servers. When a Linux app inside WSL2 wants to use a Windows file, the Linux kernel (there is only ever one for all running WSL2 images!) talks to a Windows app that does the file serving. When a Windows app wants to use a Linux file from a WSL2 image, the image first has to run (might take a little while for it to boot) and then a daemon there serves the file to the Windows app. I think one of the file servers use a version of the 9P protocol. Maybe they both do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9P_(protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9P_(protocol) Things that do lots of file I/O (such as compiling) are way faster under WSL2 using local file systems than under WSL1.
B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago
> one of the last people using WSL1. (waves). Yep, it does "the needed". "2 is bigger than 1" can take a hike.
augustk 2y ago
MSYS2 is quite decent. I use it everyday at work where I have to use MS Windows. https://www.msys2.org/ https://www.msys2.org/
- dgfitz 2y ago
  Msys2 is really great, I also daily drive it when I’m on a windows box.
- EasyMark 2y ago
  Yeah I switched from cygwin to msys2 a few years ago, it works quite well for most things, seems a little slow when scripting though, as windows process forking is slow af. It kind of pushed me to learn a lot more python and switch over from bash which was my primary scripting language for various tasks, msys python is roughly as fast as straight windows python install
TeMPOraL 2y ago
I was like you until last year. I did all my development from Emacs on WSL1, writing mostly Windows-specific code (DCOM). I maintained a set of brittle hacks to allow me to drive Windows side CMake and MSBuild straight from Emacs, and then run LSP on compile commands from Clang tricked into thinking it's cross-compiling. It held up surprisingly well. Eventually, I installed a WSL2 distro so I could run Docker, then I had to reimage the machine because corporate reasons, and then, with my work involving less Windows-specific code, I decided to not recreate my pile of hacks, but start with a fresh WSL2 setup. It works well enough, so that's what I use now. FWIW, I always liked WSL1 more. WSL2 is basically just more streamlined VirtualBox setup; WSL1 is magic.
- nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
  Genuinely impressed at this bespoke approach.
- nine_k 2y ago
  WSL1 reminds me of coLinux of old times. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_Linux https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_Linux
  - chungy 2y ago
    That's more comparable to WSL2 than WSL1. WSL1 is a subsystem on the NT kernel, allowing Linux binaries to run natively on Windows itself (not a virtual machine). It's the spiritual successor to Interix, that showed up in NT 4.0 and was removed in Windows 8. The flip side is Wine, allowing Windows binaries to run natively on Linux.
- HeavyStorm 2y ago
  Actually, it's a streamlined Hyper-V setup, rather literally.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
  You run emacs on the Linux side now though, right? So you're probably better off that way.
underdeserver 2y ago
Remember Cygwin?
- ale42 2y ago
  I mainly remember (mostly) not wanting to install it because of the so many weird things it does, or rather it did when I last used it more than a decade ago (including strange NTFS ACLs to emulate POSIX permissions).
- i80and 2y ago
  I remember Steve Yeggie selling me on it as a better Unix than Unix, then getting bogged down in cryptic inexplicable failure modes Really cool technology really early, but I can't say I'm nostalgic!
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Yep, I used it a lot. Made Windows tolerable.
- nocman 2y ago
  What do you mean "remember"? It still makes using the command line in Windows tolerable. And yes, I am familiar with PowerShell, and NO I'm not interested in using it.
725686 2y ago
Completely off topic, but I was a Linux user for years, then I had to use Windows with WSL2, and it was a constant struggle. I recently switched to a Mac M3, and oh boy, it is a pleasure to use. No more fighting the Windows/WSL divide, slowness and command line tools. Also M3 is a really fast beast.
- kccqzy 2y ago
  It sounds like you would be happier with WSL1. It also has way less divide between Windows and WSL.
dataflow 2y ago
> I think I'm one of the last people using WSL1. I think you're the second-to-last one :-)
CoolCold 2y ago
I still run one distro on WSL1 - the fact it shares network with "main" Windows helps me to do simpler TCP proxying when needed. So you are not alone ;) While WSL1 is nothing bad, the most of things I do involving WSL happens in WSL2. Not to say you are doing something wrong - whatever suite your needs. For me, WSL2 provide Linux tooling, i.e. systemd, which WSL1 just cannot by design. The very same way managing system as I do on servers. When it's possible/makes sense, I do run gitlab-runner in my WSL2 for easier builds debugging, when setting up new projects for programmers - comparing to 250-300+ ms latency working on remote hosts, it's often much more productive. Basically stable Linux without fighting with Linux-on-desktop-year-to-come.
roeles 2y ago
Work only permits wsl1. I use vs code with the wsl1 plugin. The editor runs on windows, but it is as if you're on Linux. Terminal is Linux, Filesystem looks like native Linux...
drchap 2y ago
Have you tried WezTerm? It is a modern, performant, and full-featured cross-platform terminal written in Rust. https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/index.html https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/index.html
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
  I have not. Native mouse and scrollback is one of the important things I want. I'll give it a go, thanks!

mrweasel 2y ago

Wait what? I'm not a Windows user, so I haven't used any version of WSL, but WSL 2 doesn't store the files on the Windows side? It seems to me that the whole "easy access to your Windows files in a Linux environment" was the point of WSL.

roland35 2y ago
Wsl 2 can access files in windows, but it is very slow.
- nuancebydefault 2y ago
  With the benefit of Linux and its filesystem being super (natively) fast in WSL2. What I've very often done is use command line tools like compilers, search&replace etc inside WSL2, in a Windows terminal. You have the benefits of speed and all the CLI tools of the Linux world. And then have the GUIs, like vscode, running on Windows. Vscode has its server running on the WSL side, so still very good performance. Best of both worlds, since the GUIs and the CLIs are tightly integrated.
  - 8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
    That's the crux of the issue. Vscode works ok because you can run it as a server, but other IDEs (yes there are others) are slow.
peterfirefly 2y ago
WSL1 is really just a new system call interface for Windows. WSL2 uses "disks" emulated via image files that are stored as ordinary Windows files (but in a secret place). This makes most file I/O from inside WSL2 faster than from inside WSL1. WSL2 can use the Windows file system (and vice versa) via file servers. When a Linux app inside WSL2 wants to use a Windows file, the Linux kernel (there is only ever one for all running WSL2 images!) talks to a Windows app that does the file serving. When a Windows app wants to use a Linux file from a WSL2 image, the image first has to run (might take a little while for it to boot) and then a daemon there serves the file to the Windows app. I think one of the file servers use a version of the 9P protocol. Maybe they both do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9P_(protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9P_(protocol) Things that do lots of file I/O (such as compiling) are way faster under WSL2 using local file systems than under WSL1.

B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago

> one of the last people using WSL1. (waves). Yep, it does "the needed". "2 is bigger than 1" can take a hike.

augustk 2y ago

MSYS2 is quite decent. I use it everyday at work where I have to use MS Windows. https://www.msys2.org/ https://www.msys2.org/

dgfitz 2y ago
Msys2 is really great, I also daily drive it when I’m on a windows box.
EasyMark 2y ago
Yeah I switched from cygwin to msys2 a few years ago, it works quite well for most things, seems a little slow when scripting though, as windows process forking is slow af. It kind of pushed me to learn a lot more python and switch over from bash which was my primary scripting language for various tasks, msys python is roughly as fast as straight windows python install

TeMPOraL 2y ago

I was like you until last year. I did all my development from Emacs on WSL1, writing mostly Windows-specific code (DCOM). I maintained a set of brittle hacks to allow me to drive Windows side CMake and MSBuild straight from Emacs, and then run LSP on compile commands from Clang tricked into thinking it's cross-compiling. It held up surprisingly well. Eventually, I installed a WSL2 distro so I could run Docker, then I had to reimage the machine because corporate reasons, and then, with my work involving less Windows-specific code, I decided to not recreate my pile of hacks, but start with a fresh WSL2 setup. It works well enough, so that's what I use now. FWIW, I always liked WSL1 more. WSL2 is basically just more streamlined VirtualBox setup; WSL1 is magic.

nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
Genuinely impressed at this bespoke approach.
nine_k 2y ago
WSL1 reminds me of coLinux of old times. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_Linux https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_Linux
- chungy 2y ago
  That's more comparable to WSL2 than WSL1. WSL1 is a subsystem on the NT kernel, allowing Linux binaries to run natively on Windows itself (not a virtual machine). It's the spiritual successor to Interix, that showed up in NT 4.0 and was removed in Windows 8. The flip side is Wine, allowing Windows binaries to run natively on Linux.
HeavyStorm 2y ago
Actually, it's a streamlined Hyper-V setup, rather literally.
8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
You run emacs on the Linux side now though, right? So you're probably better off that way.

underdeserver 2y ago

Remember Cygwin?

ale42 2y ago
I mainly remember (mostly) not wanting to install it because of the so many weird things it does, or rather it did when I last used it more than a decade ago (including strange NTFS ACLs to emulate POSIX permissions).
i80and 2y ago
I remember Steve Yeggie selling me on it as a better Unix than Unix, then getting bogged down in cryptic inexplicable failure modes Really cool technology really early, but I can't say I'm nostalgic!
SoftTalker 2y ago
Yep, I used it a lot. Made Windows tolerable.
nocman 2y ago
What do you mean "remember"? It still makes using the command line in Windows tolerable. And yes, I am familiar with PowerShell, and NO I'm not interested in using it.

725686 2y ago

Completely off topic, but I was a Linux user for years, then I had to use Windows with WSL2, and it was a constant struggle. I recently switched to a Mac M3, and oh boy, it is a pleasure to use. No more fighting the Windows/WSL divide, slowness and command line tools. Also M3 is a really fast beast.

kccqzy 2y ago
It sounds like you would be happier with WSL1. It also has way less divide between Windows and WSL.

dataflow 2y ago

> I think I'm one of the last people using WSL1. I think you're the second-to-last one :-)

CoolCold 2y ago

I still run one distro on WSL1 - the fact it shares network with "main" Windows helps me to do simpler TCP proxying when needed. So you are not alone ;) While WSL1 is nothing bad, the most of things I do involving WSL happens in WSL2. Not to say you are doing something wrong - whatever suite your needs. For me, WSL2 provide Linux tooling, i.e. systemd, which WSL1 just cannot by design. The very same way managing system as I do on servers. When it's possible/makes sense, I do run gitlab-runner in my WSL2 for easier builds debugging, when setting up new projects for programmers - comparing to 250-300+ ms latency working on remote hosts, it's often much more productive. Basically stable Linux without fighting with Linux-on-desktop-year-to-come.

roeles 2y ago

Work only permits wsl1. I use vs code with the wsl1 plugin. The editor runs on windows, but it is as if you're on Linux. Terminal is Linux, Filesystem looks like native Linux...

drchap 2y ago

Have you tried WezTerm? It is a modern, performant, and full-featured cross-platform terminal written in Rust. https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/index.html https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/index.html

8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
I have not. Native mouse and scrollback is one of the important things I want. I'll give it a go, thanks!