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I don't get this feeling... wouldn't you want to play soccer like Messi? Or play guitar like Hendrix? (etc..). There can be pleasure in being a spectator, but

I don't get this feeling... wouldn't you want to play soccer like Messi? Or play guitar like Hendrix? (etc..). There can be pleasure in being a spectator, but being a performer, at least to me, is 1000 times more fulfilling. I don't care if someone else can do it, even a robot... I want to do that myself! A society with more space for personal ambitions and less need to hustle for food sounds great to me.

bamboozled 2y ago
I know all this, it's basic common sense, but when you REALLY think about what you're saying, it's still strange. Likely a humanoid robot will be able to play guitar 1000x better than hendrix, then what's the point in you becoming as good as Hendrix, so you can play guitar for yourself in your basement? The difference between today and the future is, today there are still things humans can do better than machines and robots, when there isn't, it will be weird.
- emmanueloga_ 2y ago
  Let me try again, just because I find it almost comical that we so cannot understand each other lol. Think of your favorite food. Now, replace eating that food with watching someone else eating it. Is that as enjoyable? Now fast forward to 1000 years in the future where robot humanoids are eating your favorite food and turning it into their form of nutrition. I mean agree to disagree and stuff, but I just cannot for the life of me understand why someone or (some entity) doing something removes from your own pleasure of doing it yourself, your way.
  - bamboozled 2y ago
    We just see it differently. My last attempt, cooking for my family. Let's say a robot can make a 100x better dinner than I can, why would my family want me to cook them food, even though I like it? See what I mean? It's nice you enjoy it, but you're going to be 1% as good as what you could have, so it's likely not going to be worth doing the things you like doing, even if you like the journey?
    - jack_pp 2y ago
      Hobbies are something you do for yourself not others. If you are attracted to cooking then it could be fun to try to recreate the amazing food the robot gives you for free just as a challenge
    - GreenWatermelon 2y ago
      Your comments imply that you derive self-worth from external validations, i.e, my effort has no worth if someone else can do better. I think this is an unhealthy world view. I've certainly learned thus after years of therapy. Others derive self-worth from self-validation. We'll never be fast at math as calculators, yet their exist people who enjoy doing head-math. Doing a jigsaw puzzle has no inherent worth, yet people love doing so. Those people exist so it's a good idea to try to understand their perspective. Not everyone's idea of fun is "Creating value for others" Guns are great for hunting, but people still learn archery, because it's fun to shoot an arrow. Another aspect is human connection: I would prefer eating an average meal made by someone close, rather than an amazing meal made by machine. Machines can't add the special ingredient of love :) I would love to learn blacksmithing, for the sole reason that forging a sword from an iron/steel ingot is so fucking metal and awesome.
- int_19h 2y ago
  A robot today can play most video games much better than I do, which is why we have that whole anti-cheat thing for aimbots etc. Why do people still play video games? And not only that, but do crazy stuff like speedruns or self-imposed limitations that make it borderline impossible to win?
SoftTalker 2y ago
You very likely don't have the talent to do those things that well. And now you'll have the time to prove it to yourself beyond any doubt.
- emmanueloga_ 2y ago
  "Focus on the journey, not the destination"

bamboozled 2y ago

I know all this, it's basic common sense, but when you REALLY think about what you're saying, it's still strange. Likely a humanoid robot will be able to play guitar 1000x better than hendrix, then what's the point in you becoming as good as Hendrix, so you can play guitar for yourself in your basement? The difference between today and the future is, today there are still things humans can do better than machines and robots, when there isn't, it will be weird.

emmanueloga_ 2y ago
Let me try again, just because I find it almost comical that we so cannot understand each other lol. Think of your favorite food. Now, replace eating that food with watching someone else eating it. Is that as enjoyable? Now fast forward to 1000 years in the future where robot humanoids are eating your favorite food and turning it into their form of nutrition. I mean agree to disagree and stuff, but I just cannot for the life of me understand why someone or (some entity) doing something removes from your own pleasure of doing it yourself, your way.
- bamboozled 2y ago
  We just see it differently. My last attempt, cooking for my family. Let's say a robot can make a 100x better dinner than I can, why would my family want me to cook them food, even though I like it? See what I mean? It's nice you enjoy it, but you're going to be 1% as good as what you could have, so it's likely not going to be worth doing the things you like doing, even if you like the journey?
  - jack_pp 2y ago
    Hobbies are something you do for yourself not others. If you are attracted to cooking then it could be fun to try to recreate the amazing food the robot gives you for free just as a challenge
  - GreenWatermelon 2y ago
    Your comments imply that you derive self-worth from external validations, i.e, my effort has no worth if someone else can do better. I think this is an unhealthy world view. I've certainly learned thus after years of therapy. Others derive self-worth from self-validation. We'll never be fast at math as calculators, yet their exist people who enjoy doing head-math. Doing a jigsaw puzzle has no inherent worth, yet people love doing so. Those people exist so it's a good idea to try to understand their perspective. Not everyone's idea of fun is "Creating value for others" Guns are great for hunting, but people still learn archery, because it's fun to shoot an arrow. Another aspect is human connection: I would prefer eating an average meal made by someone close, rather than an amazing meal made by machine. Machines can't add the special ingredient of love :) I would love to learn blacksmithing, for the sole reason that forging a sword from an iron/steel ingot is so fucking metal and awesome.
int_19h 2y ago
A robot today can play most video games much better than I do, which is why we have that whole anti-cheat thing for aimbots etc. Why do people still play video games? And not only that, but do crazy stuff like speedruns or self-imposed limitations that make it borderline impossible to win?

SoftTalker 2y ago

You very likely don't have the talent to do those things that well. And now you'll have the time to prove it to yourself beyond any doubt.

emmanueloga_ 2y ago
"Focus on the journey, not the destination"