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The Submerged Nabataean Temple in Puteoli at Pozzuoli, Italy

87 points by aguaviva 2y ago

aguaviva 2y ago
See also: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/underwater-temple-from-indiana-jones-civilization-discovered/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/underwater-temple...
openrisk 2y ago
Despite the enormous popularity of Petra the Nabateans are still a bit of a mysterious corner of the ancient world. This Italian temple sort of binds them to the "known universe". It is also an interesting example of so-called political risk: your business fortunes being tied too closely to the whims of a State. > The edification of the sanctuary was possible when the Nabataeans enjoyed the freedom and opportunities offered by the friendship with Rome and the independence of their motherland. In this golden age, from the time of Augustus to that of Trajan (AD 98–117), the Nabataeans accumulated an enormous wealth but then... > the trade routes were absorbed into a general network controlled by the State, with very little space for the initiatives of a people no longer independent
- sandworm101 2y ago
  >> The downsizing of Nabataeans’ trade and the end of their small monopoly are perhaps the simplest explanations for the end of the sanctuary; In other words: Rome stopped a local vassal community from choking trade via local taxation. Today we might call that free trade, the elimination of local tariffs in favor of a national system to promote unencumbered commerce.
  - JALTU 2y ago
    Am reminded of Bruges in Belgium.
princearthur 2y ago
You can't pick up a rock in Italy without technically disturbing an ancient ruin of some kind. It's unsurprising that this might be the case right off the coast too. Still amazing to look at when the water is clear in aerial pictures. As an aside, historical preservation was used as a pretext for artificial housing supply restrictions in Europe much earlier than in the US. Eventually US property owners caught on. Now any old 20th century box is revered like a Haussmannian mansion in Paris.
- amarcheschi 2y ago
  Here in Pisa a decade or so ago the town started building an underground parking almost in front of the train station. The work had to be stopped soon because they found ancient Roman ships beneath the ground, that sank during a storm. After (many) years a museum with these ships opened and the underground parking works could start again, but it took literally years. The museum is small but quite cool tho, but you have to be passionate about it
  - amarcheschi 2y ago
    It makes sense to preserve history, old or less old that is. In pisa I can think of at least two restaurants/cafes that have a partial glass floor with remains of what was there during medieval age
  - xenospn 2y ago
    Someone told me (years ago) that any building area in Manhattan must first be screened for Native American burial remains before any work could begin. Not sure if that’s true tho!
    - lostlogin 2y ago
      That seems reasonable doesn’t it? Once it’s gone it’s gone. We have areas like that here in New Zealand. https://hamilton.govt.nz/property-rates-and-building/district-plan/plan-changes/plan-change-9/archaeological-sites/ https://hamilton.govt.nz/property-rates-and-building/distric...
qubitly 2y ago
An underwater Nabataean temple in Italy really shows how deep ancient trade ties ran, until shifting Roman politics changed everything for smaller players like the Nabataeans.
unit149 2y ago
Altar A1, bearing the inscription Dusari sacrum - roughly translating to "sacred Duscari" is an epitaph to Dushara. Nabateans worshipped this pre-Islamic deity that is analogous to All-ot. This submerged temple may lend credence to the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis. More on this: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0306987785900362 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/030698...
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  It wasn’t submerged when they built it.
INTPenis 2y ago
I just listened to the Fall of Civlizations podcast about the Nabateans. So I immediately realized why this is interesting, to find a nabatean temple so far away in Naples. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSfFq02pK4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSfFq02pK4s
executive 2y ago
Easy dive/snorkel on some of these ruins. Most features are at ~15ft. Highly recommend if in Naples area. See: https://www.subaia.com/underwater-archaeological-park-of-baia/ https://www.subaia.com/underwater-archaeological-park-of-bai...
BobbyTables2 2y ago
How did the water level rise that much since it was built?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Sea level changes and seismic activities, usually. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/05/italy-supervolcano-campi-flegrei-naples-earthquakes-evacuation-plans https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/05/italy-supervol... > Experts say the increased seismic activity is probably linked to a phenomenon known as bradyseism, when the earth rises or falls, depending on the cycle, caused by the filling or emptying of underground magma chambers.
- arminiusreturns 2y ago
  Volcanic and seismic activity.
- pm215 2y ago
  It's more that the land has subsided, rather than the sea level rising. The article mentions that this is due to volcanic activity, and I had a bit of a dig and found: https://rischi.protezionecivile.gov.it/en/volcanic/volcanoes-italy/phlegraen-fields/ https://rischi.protezionecivile.gov.it/en/volcanic/volcanoes... -- the area, including a lot of the Gulf of Pozzuoli, is part of a volcanic caldera which is still sufficiently active that the ground level gradually sinks and occasionally rises as the magma chamber underneath empties or fills. The area is the main cited example in the wikipedia article for the phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradyseism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradyseism .
verisimi 2y ago
Every time I see these underwater history sites (Italy, Greece, Japan, North Africa), it gets me wondering about sea water levels rising on account of global warming.

87 points by aguaviva 2y ago

See also: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/underwater-temple-from-indiana-jones-civilization-discovered/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/underwater-temple...

openrisk 2y ago

Despite the enormous popularity of Petra the Nabateans are still a bit of a mysterious corner of the ancient world. This Italian temple sort of binds them to the "known universe". It is also an interesting example of so-called political risk: your business fortunes being tied too closely to the whims of a State. > The edification of the sanctuary was possible when the Nabataeans enjoyed the freedom and opportunities offered by the friendship with Rome and the independence of their motherland. In this golden age, from the time of Augustus to that of Trajan (AD 98–117), the Nabataeans accumulated an enormous wealth but then... > the trade routes were absorbed into a general network controlled by the State, with very little space for the initiatives of a people no longer independent

sandworm101 2y ago
>> The downsizing of Nabataeans’ trade and the end of their small monopoly are perhaps the simplest explanations for the end of the sanctuary; In other words: Rome stopped a local vassal community from choking trade via local taxation. Today we might call that free trade, the elimination of local tariffs in favor of a national system to promote unencumbered commerce.
- JALTU 2y ago
  Am reminded of Bruges in Belgium.

princearthur 2y ago

You can't pick up a rock in Italy without technically disturbing an ancient ruin of some kind. It's unsurprising that this might be the case right off the coast too. Still amazing to look at when the water is clear in aerial pictures. As an aside, historical preservation was used as a pretext for artificial housing supply restrictions in Europe much earlier than in the US. Eventually US property owners caught on. Now any old 20th century box is revered like a Haussmannian mansion in Paris.

amarcheschi 2y ago
Here in Pisa a decade or so ago the town started building an underground parking almost in front of the train station. The work had to be stopped soon because they found ancient Roman ships beneath the ground, that sank during a storm. After (many) years a museum with these ships opened and the underground parking works could start again, but it took literally years. The museum is small but quite cool tho, but you have to be passionate about it
- amarcheschi 2y ago
  It makes sense to preserve history, old or less old that is. In pisa I can think of at least two restaurants/cafes that have a partial glass floor with remains of what was there during medieval age
- xenospn 2y ago
  Someone told me (years ago) that any building area in Manhattan must first be screened for Native American burial remains before any work could begin. Not sure if that’s true tho!
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    That seems reasonable doesn’t it? Once it’s gone it’s gone. We have areas like that here in New Zealand. https://hamilton.govt.nz/property-rates-and-building/district-plan/plan-changes/plan-change-9/archaeological-sites/ https://hamilton.govt.nz/property-rates-and-building/distric...

qubitly 2y ago

An underwater Nabataean temple in Italy really shows how deep ancient trade ties ran, until shifting Roman politics changed everything for smaller players like the Nabataeans.

unit149 2y ago

Altar A1, bearing the inscription Dusari sacrum - roughly translating to "sacred Duscari" is an epitaph to Dushara. Nabateans worshipped this pre-Islamic deity that is analogous to All-ot. This submerged temple may lend credence to the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis. More on this: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0306987785900362 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/030698...

ceejayoz 2y ago
It wasn’t submerged when they built it.

INTPenis 2y ago

I just listened to the Fall of Civlizations podcast about the Nabateans. So I immediately realized why this is interesting, to find a nabatean temple so far away in Naples. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSfFq02pK4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSfFq02pK4s

executive 2y ago

Easy dive/snorkel on some of these ruins. Most features are at ~15ft. Highly recommend if in Naples area. See: https://www.subaia.com/underwater-archaeological-park-of-baia/ https://www.subaia.com/underwater-archaeological-park-of-bai...

BobbyTables2 2y ago

How did the water level rise that much since it was built?

ceejayoz 2y ago
Sea level changes and seismic activities, usually. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/05/italy-supervolcano-campi-flegrei-naples-earthquakes-evacuation-plans https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/05/italy-supervol... > Experts say the increased seismic activity is probably linked to a phenomenon known as bradyseism, when the earth rises or falls, depending on the cycle, caused by the filling or emptying of underground magma chambers.
arminiusreturns 2y ago
Volcanic and seismic activity.
pm215 2y ago
It's more that the land has subsided, rather than the sea level rising. The article mentions that this is due to volcanic activity, and I had a bit of a dig and found: https://rischi.protezionecivile.gov.it/en/volcanic/volcanoes-italy/phlegraen-fields/ https://rischi.protezionecivile.gov.it/en/volcanic/volcanoes... -- the area, including a lot of the Gulf of Pozzuoli, is part of a volcanic caldera which is still sufficiently active that the ground level gradually sinks and occasionally rises as the magma chamber underneath empties or fills. The area is the main cited example in the wikipedia article for the phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradyseism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradyseism .

verisimi 2y ago

Every time I see these underwater history sites (Italy, Greece, Japan, North Africa), it gets me wondering about sea water levels rising on account of global warming.