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Google's SEO almost killed the web, ChatGPT Search will finish the job.

by thefourthchime 2y ago

kylebenzle 2y ago
We are still spending most of our time online on social media sites like Hacker News, Instagram and Youtube, right?
- topaz0 2y ago
  That's not the web
  - Retr0id 2y ago
    Why not?
    - cryptoz 2y ago
      I'll take a stab at it. What is the web, really? Gotta be stuff you see and interact with in web browsers right? Sure, you can get to HN, YouTube and Instagram in a browser. But by traffic for example, how much of activity on HN, Instagram and YouTube combined is through a browser? I mean, gotta be pretty low...like 5%? Just a guess, but remember all the app usage and TV usage for those sites is pretty big. So if 95% of traffic/users/whatever metric are not using a web browser for those activities, is it really the web? It can't be called the web just 'cause they use HTTPS. It's gotta be a 'world wide web' experience, which I think a good proxy for would be using a web browser. I got no horse in this race, just thinking out loud about it.
      - mulmen 2y ago
        What other way is there to access HN but the website? Agree YouTube and Instagram are probably mostly apps which puts them in the “Internet” category but not “world wide web”.
        echoangle 2y ago
        Technically there is an API and there are some client apps for HN. No way they make up 95% of traffic though.
      - satvikpendem 2y ago
        WWW != Internet, yes. I would count mobile apps as part of the web too, they're simply another sort of "browser."
      - herval 2y ago
        “The web” is, by definition, a collection of things that are loosely connected and accessible (searchable, etc). While the current internet is still “a web”, it’s mostly a web of 2-3 massive properties, entirely operated by the same 2-3 companies, completely devoided of public apis (and sometimes even web accessible content). The fact that sometimes they have an html version makes them “websites”, I guess, but not really a “web of nodes” the same way it used to be Another common phenomenon these days is that lots of businesses don’t even bother having a web presence - it’s all instagram, WhatsApp and tiktok accounts, mostly only accessible via apps (or worse, chat platforms like discord)
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      I think the idea is that those are websites on the web, which are distinct from the web itself. There are several meaningful difference between surfing Youtube and surfing the web. These include ownership, access, review, exposure, and more.
    - beowulfey 2y ago
      the web was the clicking of links from site to site. the interconnectedness of information. Searching the web was the start of browsing but it was not the only means of traversing. Honestly the web died long ago imo. Wikipedia and other wikis are the only places that feel like the old web to me now.
hidelooktropic 2y ago
How?
- cowpig 2y ago
  How can an economy function if there is no way to get any value from producing anything? Google (and Facebook, a few other platforms) made it so that the vast majority of websites are never visited. ChatGPT further erodes the possibility of tying economic value to the production of that value. Seems like we need a new framework around "intellectual property"
dyauspitr 2y ago
In essence there is no “objective” algorithm. It’s a mish mash of random black box patterns that we hope delivers the right answer. It probably will most of the time but it will be gamed hard and it’s going to be hard to undo changes in gamified models.

Google's SEO almost killed the web, ChatGPT Search will finish the job.

kylebenzle 2y ago

We are still spending most of our time online on social media sites like Hacker News, Instagram and Youtube, right?

topaz0 2y ago
That's not the web
- Retr0id 2y ago
  Why not?
  - cryptoz 2y ago
    I'll take a stab at it. What is the web, really? Gotta be stuff you see and interact with in web browsers right? Sure, you can get to HN, YouTube and Instagram in a browser. But by traffic for example, how much of activity on HN, Instagram and YouTube combined is through a browser? I mean, gotta be pretty low...like 5%? Just a guess, but remember all the app usage and TV usage for those sites is pretty big. So if 95% of traffic/users/whatever metric are not using a web browser for those activities, is it really the web? It can't be called the web just 'cause they use HTTPS. It's gotta be a 'world wide web' experience, which I think a good proxy for would be using a web browser. I got no horse in this race, just thinking out loud about it.
    - mulmen 2y ago
      What other way is there to access HN but the website? Agree YouTube and Instagram are probably mostly apps which puts them in the “Internet” category but not “world wide web”.
      - echoangle 2y ago
        Technically there is an API and there are some client apps for HN. No way they make up 95% of traffic though.
    - satvikpendem 2y ago
      WWW != Internet, yes. I would count mobile apps as part of the web too, they're simply another sort of "browser."
    - herval 2y ago
      “The web” is, by definition, a collection of things that are loosely connected and accessible (searchable, etc). While the current internet is still “a web”, it’s mostly a web of 2-3 massive properties, entirely operated by the same 2-3 companies, completely devoided of public apis (and sometimes even web accessible content). The fact that sometimes they have an html version makes them “websites”, I guess, but not really a “web of nodes” the same way it used to be Another common phenomenon these days is that lots of businesses don’t even bother having a web presence - it’s all instagram, WhatsApp and tiktok accounts, mostly only accessible via apps (or worse, chat platforms like discord)
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I think the idea is that those are websites on the web, which are distinct from the web itself. There are several meaningful difference between surfing Youtube and surfing the web. These include ownership, access, review, exposure, and more.
  - beowulfey 2y ago
    the web was the clicking of links from site to site. the interconnectedness of information. Searching the web was the start of browsing but it was not the only means of traversing. Honestly the web died long ago imo. Wikipedia and other wikis are the only places that feel like the old web to me now.

hidelooktropic 2y ago

How?

cowpig 2y ago
How can an economy function if there is no way to get any value from producing anything? Google (and Facebook, a few other platforms) made it so that the vast majority of websites are never visited. ChatGPT further erodes the possibility of tying economic value to the production of that value. Seems like we need a new framework around "intellectual property"

dyauspitr 2y ago

In essence there is no “objective” algorithm. It’s a mish mash of random black box patterns that we hope delivers the right answer. It probably will most of the time but it will be gamed hard and it’s going to be hard to undo changes in gamified models.