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H1B has evolved into a bizarre collaborative scam between the government and tech corporations; there is, in fact, a US citizen who can fill any software engine

H1B has evolved into a bizarre collaborative scam between the government and tech corporations; there is, in fact, a US citizen who can fill any software engineering role a US company has.

thrw42A8N 2y ago
Not really. You can't get an expert in most recent European or Asian technology (for example 5G mobile network backbone) in the US.
- Eumenes 2y ago
  H1b isn't about "experts", there are other visas for that (eb1 or o1). H1b's purpose it to find talent after search has been "exhausted" locally. That is rarely done in good faith.
  - vunderba 2y ago
    Agreed, you're really reaching if your company implies that it needs to search abroad to find a dev who's proficient with react...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
lurking15 2y ago
It's an outrage once you work at these companies and behold the sheer dysfunction and they're all getting paid wages native American citizens would take.
- astrange 2y ago
  The model that Americans would take any job if the wages were high enough is simple but obviously false. For manual labor there's no amount of money you could pay Americans to be farmworkers. For desk jobs there's no amount that'll overcome Americans' cultural belief that you can't do math unless you were born as a special sort of person who is "good at math".
  - lurking15 2y ago
    I'm not sure how this applies to what I said.
  - mantas 2y ago
    1 million/year? There’s definitely an amount that’d allow to find enough workers locally. The other question is how much would the produce cost and how many people would be willing to pay.
    - astrange 2y ago
      Once it gets that high, they don't need to work because they can retire. (Or buy the farmland themselves and resume paying migrants to do it.)
      - mantas 2y ago
        More like living costs would balloon. And farm workers would become middle class. Which IMO makes sense, since it’s a damn hard job. Land price would also balloon. Or local farming would collapse and 99% of food would be imported. But massive import taxes are more likely since this is national security question.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - kristjansson 2y ago
    You wildly underestimate American avarice.
    - astrange 2y ago
      I know a fair number of Silicon Valley "townies" and they are not trying and failing to get into tech companies. Only the Asian ones with tiger parents are even considering it. The hippie aligned ones just want to get infinite degrees in something natural like forestry management. The rest are nurses or civil servants if they want a career, or real estate agents or artists or game streamers otherwise. If anything I think younger Americans tend to go for the kind of vulgar Marxism where everything bad is caused by "corporations", and women in strongly prefer work that comes off as being good for society, which means they won't even consider it. Same for me of course; I work in tech because I was on the computer too much, not because I was greedy and looked up good careers.
- busterarm 2y ago
  It's also an outrage how much leverage companies have over their H1B employees (especially from India, etc). If you have any long-term H1B coworkers from less-favored nations, I guarantee you there's a heartbreaking story they have to tell you if you ask. I work with a super high-performing guy with a Masters degree who has been at my company for 15 years and gets treated super poorly by the company. He still is probably 10 years away from getting a naturalization interview and has no hope of switching jobs in the meantime (and has children that are citizens...).
  - lovich 2y ago
    If they have direct family members that are citizens they should skip the wait apply through the family path, although they would need to be on good terms with said family member as they have to vouch for their welfare payments for 10 years At least it that way about a decade ago, as I’m realizing things might have changed since then
UncleOxidant 2y ago
> there is, in fact, a US citizen who can fill any software engineering role a US company has. Right now I suspect you're probably right. But 2 or 3 years ago? If you're right then why would companies want to go through all of the extra paperwork and hoops to hire an H1B right now? Maybe the answer is "they can pay less"? But I'm not sure if it's actually all that much less than they could pay someone who's been looking for work for six months to a year or more.
- ouddv 2y ago
  At large tech companies, the pay is entirely driven by level and rating; so there's no savings in salary; just added costs to comply with the directive. It's endlessly frustrating that the US government wants to centrally plan my hiring decisions.
  - UncleOxidant 2y ago
    Ok, so why are you hiring H1B's at this point then if there's "just added costs to comply with the directive"?
    - ouddv 2y ago
      Because sometimes we fail to find a qualified American candidate.
  - sangnoir 2y ago
    > It's endlessly frustrating that the US government wants to centrally plan my hiring decisions What's the alternative - the government outsources visa issuance to the companies employing foreign labor?
- jajko 2y ago
  You would be surprised how hard can some managers negotiate 10% salary change during hiring, despite the fact its not their own money, or anyhow useful for their work. I talk multinational mega corporations here. People just want to be good employees(TM) or at least seen as such.
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
Bizarre? Supporting business's whims is mostly what the government has existed to do for the last forty years. What's bizarre is that people expect our country to function normally when this is so blatant. Yes, there's been mild movement away from this insanity, but we're still miles to the right of what actually supports the people who live here.

H1B has evolved into a bizarre collaborative scam between the government and tech corporations; there is, in fact, a US citizen who can fill any software engineering role a US company has.

thrw42A8N 2y ago

Not really. You can't get an expert in most recent European or Asian technology (for example 5G mobile network backbone) in the US.

Eumenes 2y ago
H1b isn't about "experts", there are other visas for that (eb1 or o1). H1b's purpose it to find talent after search has been "exhausted" locally. That is rarely done in good faith.
- vunderba 2y ago
  Agreed, you're really reaching if your company implies that it needs to search abroad to find a dev who's proficient with react...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

lurking15 2y ago

It's an outrage once you work at these companies and behold the sheer dysfunction and they're all getting paid wages native American citizens would take.

astrange 2y ago
The model that Americans would take any job if the wages were high enough is simple but obviously false. For manual labor there's no amount of money you could pay Americans to be farmworkers. For desk jobs there's no amount that'll overcome Americans' cultural belief that you can't do math unless you were born as a special sort of person who is "good at math".
- lurking15 2y ago
  I'm not sure how this applies to what I said.
- mantas 2y ago
  1 million/year? There’s definitely an amount that’d allow to find enough workers locally. The other question is how much would the produce cost and how many people would be willing to pay.
  - astrange 2y ago
    Once it gets that high, they don't need to work because they can retire. (Or buy the farmland themselves and resume paying migrants to do it.)
    - mantas 2y ago
      More like living costs would balloon. And farm workers would become middle class. Which IMO makes sense, since it’s a damn hard job. Land price would also balloon. Or local farming would collapse and 99% of food would be imported. But massive import taxes are more likely since this is national security question.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- kristjansson 2y ago
  You wildly underestimate American avarice.
  - astrange 2y ago
    I know a fair number of Silicon Valley "townies" and they are not trying and failing to get into tech companies. Only the Asian ones with tiger parents are even considering it. The hippie aligned ones just want to get infinite degrees in something natural like forestry management. The rest are nurses or civil servants if they want a career, or real estate agents or artists or game streamers otherwise. If anything I think younger Americans tend to go for the kind of vulgar Marxism where everything bad is caused by "corporations", and women in strongly prefer work that comes off as being good for society, which means they won't even consider it. Same for me of course; I work in tech because I was on the computer too much, not because I was greedy and looked up good careers.
busterarm 2y ago
It's also an outrage how much leverage companies have over their H1B employees (especially from India, etc). If you have any long-term H1B coworkers from less-favored nations, I guarantee you there's a heartbreaking story they have to tell you if you ask. I work with a super high-performing guy with a Masters degree who has been at my company for 15 years and gets treated super poorly by the company. He still is probably 10 years away from getting a naturalization interview and has no hope of switching jobs in the meantime (and has children that are citizens...).
- lovich 2y ago
  If they have direct family members that are citizens they should skip the wait apply through the family path, although they would need to be on good terms with said family member as they have to vouch for their welfare payments for 10 years At least it that way about a decade ago, as I’m realizing things might have changed since then

UncleOxidant 2y ago

> there is, in fact, a US citizen who can fill any software engineering role a US company has. Right now I suspect you're probably right. But 2 or 3 years ago? If you're right then why would companies want to go through all of the extra paperwork and hoops to hire an H1B right now? Maybe the answer is "they can pay less"? But I'm not sure if it's actually all that much less than they could pay someone who's been looking for work for six months to a year or more.

ouddv 2y ago
At large tech companies, the pay is entirely driven by level and rating; so there's no savings in salary; just added costs to comply with the directive. It's endlessly frustrating that the US government wants to centrally plan my hiring decisions.
- UncleOxidant 2y ago
  Ok, so why are you hiring H1B's at this point then if there's "just added costs to comply with the directive"?
  - ouddv 2y ago
    Because sometimes we fail to find a qualified American candidate.
- sangnoir 2y ago
  > It's endlessly frustrating that the US government wants to centrally plan my hiring decisions What's the alternative - the government outsources visa issuance to the companies employing foreign labor?
jajko 2y ago
You would be surprised how hard can some managers negotiate 10% salary change during hiring, despite the fact its not their own money, or anyhow useful for their work. I talk multinational mega corporations here. People just want to be good employees(TM) or at least seen as such.

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

Bizarre? Supporting business's whims is mostly what the government has existed to do for the last forty years. What's bizarre is that people expect our country to function normally when this is so blatant. Yes, there's been mild movement away from this insanity, but we're still miles to the right of what actually supports the people who live here.