5 ms·

On this topic, do y'all think the HN Who's Hiring thread has ghost jobs? I know I've applied to one and never had back (a few years ago).

FireBeyond 2y ago
Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the last eight months, and usually a byte-accurate copy of each posting), and several similar. Not to mention it's "discouraged" to call employers out on poor behavior. I know of at least three companies who post pretty steadily who ghosted at final rounds or in one case, "We intend to present a written offer" (though in "fairness", they did eventually inform me that they'd decided to freeze hiring, well, nearly three months later).
- dang 2y ago
  It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to responding to every applicant. Other suggestions for addressing this issue are welcome! Edit: since the next Who Is Hiring day is tomorrow, let's get precise. I'm including this text at the top of the thread: NEW RULE: Please only post a job in this thread if you are committed to responding to everyone who applies. Thoughts? Edit per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42011360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42011360: "Please only post a job if you intend to fill a position and are committed to responding to everyone who applies."
  - buffet_overflow 2y ago
    I like this idea. Perhaps let them self select if they will respond or not, but they have to advertise in the posting which path they chose?
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    I think that's a great start. I mean for me, I'm realistic - if it's a pre-first round or first round exit so to speak, I don't expect anything substantive, a canned response is acceptable. I get that it's a pain when you have hundreds of applicants, but it should also be trivial. It is nice to expect something a bit more involved if it's a final round thing, but still. No-one likes the ghost.
  - rafterydj 2y ago
    Two questions: 1) How would the feedback loop work from users who do not receive a response? 2) Are you concerned about a possible "chilling effect" for startups that don't want to post for fear of being spammed? As an aside, been browsing HN for years and always wanted to say that you're doing the Lord's work.
    - dang 2y ago
      (1) I don't know, and (2) I am now. That would be bad! But presumably they have to deal with that problem already anyway.
      - hinkley 2y ago
        Presumably you guys don’t want to create a report button for just this situation. I never know what to think when I see downvotes in the Who’s Hiring thread. There’s no way for me to tell if someone hates the CEO (eg, if Twitter posted job openings), or they’ve noticed the same position filed three months in a row. I’ve seen a few of those before you got around to detaching them.
  - KittenInABox 2y ago
    I would suggest that there be a way to report bad-faith job postings in some way or there are consequences. anyone can claim they applied with no response. Someone who reports actual evidence like "this account has posted this exact listing for the last 4 months and the company size hasn't changed a bit" may justify e.g. removing listings.
- ericmcer 2y ago
  Could this be a case where companies have a "people-ops" person who needs to justify their position even though the company hasn't hired anyone in months? So they create some new OKRs like: "Get 20 qualified candidates vetted and ranked in case we do decide to hire someone.", "Create 40 job ads" or something?
evilfred 2y ago
lol and all those endless "we're hiring" Flexport ads, even after they did layoffs
- dang 2y ago
  It wasn't just them, but another dozen or so YC startups who've been around for many years and always keep a job ad in the queue. It's not their fault for doing that—it's my fault for neglecting the HN job ad system for too long. I get that the community doesn't like seeing the same ads over and over for the same few, long-established companies. We recently changed the HN /jobs page to gradually reduce the frequency of those. Newer startups, who by definition haven't been around long enough to have had many posts, should be significantly better represented. The system has been designed to favor them for a long time, but it's favoring them more now.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    >it's my fault for neglecting the HN job ad system for too long. If it helps, the system works great on an honor system. Have a community of passionate hackers, a site encouraging those hackers (some of which may be part of the community) to start up their own business and realize their ides, and the ad system would have good actors on both sides the pipeline. Interesting jobs for a community of passionate people. I feel like that "honor" comes and goes with the economy though. Anything for an applicant to survive, anything for a job poster to make the company look good for investors.
la64710 2y ago
Also along with ghost jobs do we have ghost candidates? Every job posting on LinkedIn have hundred plus applicants within the first two hours. Maybe many of the applicants are not eligible but this phenomenon points to a massive increase in labor supply for tech jobs. Automation and opening up competition globally is gutting out most of the tech jobs it seems.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  The candidates are real. But The qualifications often aren't. Even if you post a job being full time on-site, you'll get applicants who are not even in the same country looking for remote work. I feel that was the natural conclusion of a system where "requirements" are as realistic as a unicorn. But we're all suffering from that
ThalesX 2y ago
Last I applied to a job posted on Who's Hiring, they had me fill a self recorded video interview on some platform. And do some coding exercise with screen sharing. Then send it to them. I've never gotten any sort of reply back, positive or negative. Felt like a clown. Won't be using that again.

FireBeyond 2y ago

Absolutely. And a lot of spam. A few months ago there was a little flame war between a few people. Company posted an ad and someone replied "this is spam, and you don't respond, just keep posting the same ad", and the company replied "no, I own the company and hand write this job ad every month to fit our future needs" which was patently a lie (exact same headcount, exact same three positions, every month for the last eight months, and usually a byte-accurate copy of each posting), and several similar. Not to mention it's "discouraged" to call employers out on poor behavior. I know of at least three companies who post pretty steadily who ghosted at final rounds or in one case, "We intend to present a written offer" (though in "fairness", they did eventually inform me that they'd decided to freeze hiring, well, nearly three months later).

dang 2y ago
It's against the rules to call out hiring companies in the thread, primarily because we don't want off-topic arguments and because it would be too easy to exploit it for shenanigans. But since people have been increasingly saying that this is a problem, let's do something about it. My current thought is to add a new instruction at the top asking companies to please only post in the thread if they're committed to responding to every applicant. Other suggestions for addressing this issue are welcome! Edit: since the next Who Is Hiring day is tomorrow, let's get precise. I'm including this text at the top of the thread: NEW RULE: Please only post a job in this thread if you are committed to responding to everyone who applies. Thoughts? Edit per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42011360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42011360: "Please only post a job if you intend to fill a position and are committed to responding to everyone who applies."
- buffet_overflow 2y ago
  I like this idea. Perhaps let them self select if they will respond or not, but they have to advertise in the posting which path they chose?
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  I think that's a great start. I mean for me, I'm realistic - if it's a pre-first round or first round exit so to speak, I don't expect anything substantive, a canned response is acceptable. I get that it's a pain when you have hundreds of applicants, but it should also be trivial. It is nice to expect something a bit more involved if it's a final round thing, but still. No-one likes the ghost.
- rafterydj 2y ago
  Two questions: 1) How would the feedback loop work from users who do not receive a response? 2) Are you concerned about a possible "chilling effect" for startups that don't want to post for fear of being spammed? As an aside, been browsing HN for years and always wanted to say that you're doing the Lord's work.
  - dang 2y ago
    (1) I don't know, and (2) I am now. That would be bad! But presumably they have to deal with that problem already anyway.
    - hinkley 2y ago
      Presumably you guys don’t want to create a report button for just this situation. I never know what to think when I see downvotes in the Who’s Hiring thread. There’s no way for me to tell if someone hates the CEO (eg, if Twitter posted job openings), or they’ve noticed the same position filed three months in a row. I’ve seen a few of those before you got around to detaching them.
- KittenInABox 2y ago
  I would suggest that there be a way to report bad-faith job postings in some way or there are consequences. anyone can claim they applied with no response. Someone who reports actual evidence like "this account has posted this exact listing for the last 4 months and the company size hasn't changed a bit" may justify e.g. removing listings.
ericmcer 2y ago
Could this be a case where companies have a "people-ops" person who needs to justify their position even though the company hasn't hired anyone in months? So they create some new OKRs like: "Get 20 qualified candidates vetted and ranked in case we do decide to hire someone.", "Create 40 job ads" or something?

evilfred 2y ago

lol and all those endless "we're hiring" Flexport ads, even after they did layoffs

dang 2y ago
It wasn't just them, but another dozen or so YC startups who've been around for many years and always keep a job ad in the queue. It's not their fault for doing that—it's my fault for neglecting the HN job ad system for too long. I get that the community doesn't like seeing the same ads over and over for the same few, long-established companies. We recently changed the HN /jobs page to gradually reduce the frequency of those. Newer startups, who by definition haven't been around long enough to have had many posts, should be significantly better represented. The system has been designed to favor them for a long time, but it's favoring them more now.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  >it's my fault for neglecting the HN job ad system for too long. If it helps, the system works great on an honor system. Have a community of passionate hackers, a site encouraging those hackers (some of which may be part of the community) to start up their own business and realize their ides, and the ad system would have good actors on both sides the pipeline. Interesting jobs for a community of passionate people. I feel like that "honor" comes and goes with the economy though. Anything for an applicant to survive, anything for a job poster to make the company look good for investors.

la64710 2y ago

Also along with ghost jobs do we have ghost candidates? Every job posting on LinkedIn have hundred plus applicants within the first two hours. Maybe many of the applicants are not eligible but this phenomenon points to a massive increase in labor supply for tech jobs. Automation and opening up competition globally is gutting out most of the tech jobs it seems.

johnnyanmac 2y ago
The candidates are real. But The qualifications often aren't. Even if you post a job being full time on-site, you'll get applicants who are not even in the same country looking for remote work. I feel that was the natural conclusion of a system where "requirements" are as realistic as a unicorn. But we're all suffering from that

ThalesX 2y ago

Last I applied to a job posted on Who's Hiring, they had me fill a self recorded video interview on some platform. And do some coding exercise with screen sharing. Then send it to them. I've never gotten any sort of reply back, positive or negative. Felt like a clown. Won't be using that again.