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I’m not shocked at all. Another issue is recruiters posting fake jobs and asking for references as step one. Soon as I say “I don’t provide references until the

I’m not shocked at all. Another issue is recruiters posting fake jobs and asking for references as step one. Soon as I say “I don’t provide references until the last step, and only to the company hiring” they hang up on me

NickC25 2y ago
Not only fake job postings, it's also companies posting fake jobs when they already have an internal or external candidate all but signed. The amount of spam and fake jobs on LI + other major sites is just disgusting and is ripe for government to come in and crack some heads.
- nickff 2y ago
  Governments are one of the worst offenders when it comes to posting jobs which have already been basically handed to internal candidates. They do it for the same reason as everyone else: compliance with external regulations or internal rules.
zero-sharp 2y ago
Yea this is a weird one. Some job applications actually require me to fill in reference contact information. I can't submit the application without that detail. Of course, I try to skirt it. Is this normal?
- CoastalCoder 2y ago
  I don't think I've ever encountered that in the U.S.
  - arp242 2y ago
    By chance I saw it recently; I remember because it stood out. And the job application seemed genuine as the poster was engaging on the "who's hiring" thread here. I would never fill that in, because I wouldn't want to bother my references. I know some of them don't really like doing it, but do it as a favour because we're on good terms. Probably not a rare scenario. I'm okay asking in a "if you provide me a reference, I will get a new job" as the final stage, but not as a "just checking in case I might land a job".
  - EasyMark 2y ago
    It’s kind of rare but it happens, I’ve definitely seen it AND been asked up front. I tell them that I don’t “burn” my references on any jobs except those I’m pretty sure I have a great chance and after some interviewing has happened.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
Yeah, I'll provide peers, but absolutely not seniors/management references. One of them very purposefully has no social media footprint and I'm not going to cross that line because of some recruiter call that almost never goes nowhere.
deprecative 2y ago
Personally, I find needing to provide references at all to be akin to me needing to get my parents permission. It makes my skin crawl and I will actively screen jobs that require them. The process feels demeaning and dehumanizing. Then you have to bother people who don't really know you anymore and beg them to waste their time on someone else's BS.
- em-bee 2y ago
  i have friends that i worked with, who would gladly be a reference, and i would not mind them doing it, but really, at best they could confirm that i am a nice person to work with. and i would never use anyone as a reference who would not do that. so the whole thing feels rather meaningless. but that's not the only thing. in germany it is common to ask for written reference letters which are called "arbeitszeugnis" (work report card, like the report card you get from school). that term makes me feel like i was a kid. it clearly establishes a hierarchy. i am the lowly subordinate employee and you are the superior employer that i am to look up to. it gets really wierd when i consider that i have been on the other side as an employer myself. (and by law these letters must be honest and may not contain unfounded negative statements which makes employers avoid writing anything negative because they could get sued.) and then there are places who ask for actual school report cards or at least grade averages or want to know how i did in math in school, as if that was in any way useful to understand how i would do as a programmer decades later.
arwhatever 2y ago
Had one group request references at the beginning, checked them, then my references got to infer that I didn't get the job offer. In fact if I recall, that group ghosted me, leaving me to infer as well. But then later another group asked me for references at the beginning, I declined to provide them, and then they were okay with proceeding through the interview process. Maybe it would work in the general case to always reply to such a request with "some previous group ghosted me, and so I've vowed to withhold the references until later in the process."?

NickC25 2y ago

Not only fake job postings, it's also companies posting fake jobs when they already have an internal or external candidate all but signed. The amount of spam and fake jobs on LI + other major sites is just disgusting and is ripe for government to come in and crack some heads.

nickff 2y ago
Governments are one of the worst offenders when it comes to posting jobs which have already been basically handed to internal candidates. They do it for the same reason as everyone else: compliance with external regulations or internal rules.

zero-sharp 2y ago

Yea this is a weird one. Some job applications actually require me to fill in reference contact information. I can't submit the application without that detail. Of course, I try to skirt it. Is this normal?

CoastalCoder 2y ago
I don't think I've ever encountered that in the U.S.
- arp242 2y ago
  By chance I saw it recently; I remember because it stood out. And the job application seemed genuine as the poster was engaging on the "who's hiring" thread here. I would never fill that in, because I wouldn't want to bother my references. I know some of them don't really like doing it, but do it as a favour because we're on good terms. Probably not a rare scenario. I'm okay asking in a "if you provide me a reference, I will get a new job" as the final stage, but not as a "just checking in case I might land a job".
- EasyMark 2y ago
  It’s kind of rare but it happens, I’ve definitely seen it AND been asked up front. I tell them that I don’t “burn” my references on any jobs except those I’m pretty sure I have a great chance and after some interviewing has happened.

johnnyanmac 2y ago

Yeah, I'll provide peers, but absolutely not seniors/management references. One of them very purposefully has no social media footprint and I'm not going to cross that line because of some recruiter call that almost never goes nowhere.

deprecative 2y ago

Personally, I find needing to provide references at all to be akin to me needing to get my parents permission. It makes my skin crawl and I will actively screen jobs that require them. The process feels demeaning and dehumanizing. Then you have to bother people who don't really know you anymore and beg them to waste their time on someone else's BS.

em-bee 2y ago
i have friends that i worked with, who would gladly be a reference, and i would not mind them doing it, but really, at best they could confirm that i am a nice person to work with. and i would never use anyone as a reference who would not do that. so the whole thing feels rather meaningless. but that's not the only thing. in germany it is common to ask for written reference letters which are called "arbeitszeugnis" (work report card, like the report card you get from school). that term makes me feel like i was a kid. it clearly establishes a hierarchy. i am the lowly subordinate employee and you are the superior employer that i am to look up to. it gets really wierd when i consider that i have been on the other side as an employer myself. (and by law these letters must be honest and may not contain unfounded negative statements which makes employers avoid writing anything negative because they could get sued.) and then there are places who ask for actual school report cards or at least grade averages or want to know how i did in math in school, as if that was in any way useful to understand how i would do as a programmer decades later.

arwhatever 2y ago

Had one group request references at the beginning, checked them, then my references got to infer that I didn't get the job offer. In fact if I recall, that group ghosted me, leaving me to infer as well. But then later another group asked me for references at the beginning, I declined to provide them, and then they were okay with proceeding through the interview process. Maybe it would work in the general case to always reply to such a request with "some previous group ghosted me, and so I've vowed to withhold the references until later in the process."?