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Those who do not understand Emacs are doomed to repeat it. Poorly, in worse languages. —C.S. Santayana Emacs TRAMP mode has been doing this for 26 years, sin

Those who do not understand Emacs are doomed to repeat it. Poorly, in worse languages. —C.S. Santayana Emacs TRAMP mode has been doing this for 26 years, since November 1998. Fashions come, and fashions go, and Emacs remains. Anyone remember Atom? Anyone remember TextMate? Just use vi or Emacs.

amszmidt 2y ago
Fun fact. Emacs was doing this even long before Tramp, in the 1980s it was already common to work with remote files. So more like 40 years …
thiht 2y ago
"Just" does quite a bit of heavy lifting here. VSCode and Zed are much easier to use than emacs or vim. To me as a user, emacs lisp (and lisp in general) is the worse language compared to TypeScript which I can work with.
- otabdeveloper4 2y ago
  > VSCode and Zed are much easier to use than emacs or vim. False. It's just that Emacs comes with fewer features out of the box. > emacs lisp (and lisp in general) is the worse language compared to TypeScript Elisp is truly a piece of shit language, but TypeScript is not much better.
fallingsquirrel 2y ago
What's the point of this comment? Zed didn't exist in 1998, so I think it's forgivable that Zed didn't support remote editing in 1998. It's pretty funny you'd comment this at the same time there's a thread on the front page with people complaining about emacs bugs/performance issues: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41954030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41954030 Is that really the best we can do? Should we have frozen tech in 1998 with our 28.8kbps modems and stopped trying to improve anything ever again? Why did you switch to this emacs fad when you could have stuck with ed(1)? I think it's great that people are advancing the state of the art. Good for Zed.
- eadmund 2y ago
  > What's the point of this comment? To encourage people to use Emacs (or vi). > Should we have frozen tech in 1998 with our 28.8kbps modems We had Ethernet and high-speed networks in 1998. The rest of the world has just caught up, that’s all. > Why did you switch to this emacs fad when you could have stuck with ed(1)? Emacs is an improvement over and above vi & ed. No other current editor is an improvement over and above Emacs. The only improvement Emacs is lacking is Common Lisp extensibility. > I think it's great that people are advancing the state of the art. But they’re not — they’re reimplementing the decades-old art. Why waste time using worse technologies to extend worse editors when one can invest one’s time using better technology to extend a better editor?
hollerith 2y ago
Don't many editors have the feature of allowing remote editing through ssh? There was discussion here a few days ago for example of an Acme clone named Anvil, which has the feature, as does Acme. VSCode has it. Also, TRAMP is a poor (unreliable, fragile) implementation of the feature. Or at least it was the last time I used it regularly about 10 years ago. Finally, if you have to resort to quoting a slogan then it is probably better not to comment at all.
eadmund 2y ago
Addendum: in retrospect, I do regret my dismissive tone. It wasn’t terribly nice. I’m sure that the developers of the feature are very proud of it, and justifiably so. All the best to them. I still maintain that it’s a pity they don’t invest their efforts in Emacs, but … it’s a free world!
mardifoufs 2y ago
Vscode's remote SSH is much better than tramp mode imo. They are not really on the same level.

amszmidt 2y ago

Fun fact. Emacs was doing this even long before Tramp, in the 1980s it was already common to work with remote files. So more like 40 years …

thiht 2y ago

"Just" does quite a bit of heavy lifting here. VSCode and Zed are much easier to use than emacs or vim. To me as a user, emacs lisp (and lisp in general) is the worse language compared to TypeScript which I can work with.

otabdeveloper4 2y ago
> VSCode and Zed are much easier to use than emacs or vim. False. It's just that Emacs comes with fewer features out of the box. > emacs lisp (and lisp in general) is the worse language compared to TypeScript Elisp is truly a piece of shit language, but TypeScript is not much better.

fallingsquirrel 2y ago

What's the point of this comment? Zed didn't exist in 1998, so I think it's forgivable that Zed didn't support remote editing in 1998. It's pretty funny you'd comment this at the same time there's a thread on the front page with people complaining about emacs bugs/performance issues: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41954030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41954030 Is that really the best we can do? Should we have frozen tech in 1998 with our 28.8kbps modems and stopped trying to improve anything ever again? Why did you switch to this emacs fad when you could have stuck with ed(1)? I think it's great that people are advancing the state of the art. Good for Zed.

eadmund 2y ago
> What's the point of this comment? To encourage people to use Emacs (or vi). > Should we have frozen tech in 1998 with our 28.8kbps modems We had Ethernet and high-speed networks in 1998. The rest of the world has just caught up, that’s all. > Why did you switch to this emacs fad when you could have stuck with ed(1)? Emacs is an improvement over and above vi & ed. No other current editor is an improvement over and above Emacs. The only improvement Emacs is lacking is Common Lisp extensibility. > I think it's great that people are advancing the state of the art. But they’re not — they’re reimplementing the decades-old art. Why waste time using worse technologies to extend worse editors when one can invest one’s time using better technology to extend a better editor?

hollerith 2y ago

Don't many editors have the feature of allowing remote editing through ssh? There was discussion here a few days ago for example of an Acme clone named Anvil, which has the feature, as does Acme. VSCode has it. Also, TRAMP is a poor (unreliable, fragile) implementation of the feature. Or at least it was the last time I used it regularly about 10 years ago. Finally, if you have to resort to quoting a slogan then it is probably better not to comment at all.

eadmund 2y ago

Addendum: in retrospect, I do regret my dismissive tone. It wasn’t terribly nice. I’m sure that the developers of the feature are very proud of it, and justifiably so. All the best to them. I still maintain that it’s a pity they don’t invest their efforts in Emacs, but … it’s a free world!

mardifoufs 2y ago

Vscode's remote SSH is much better than tramp mode imo. They are not really on the same level.