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Can we please stop pretending that Git is simple and easy to learn? If that were true then there wouldn't be "Learn how to use Git in <X> minutes!" posts every

Can we please stop pretending that Git is simple and easy to learn? If that were true then there wouldn't be "Learn how to use Git in <X> minutes!" posts every other day. The fact of the matter is that Git is incredibly powerful but also complex and hard to learn. This isn't a bash on Git at all. It's ok! Sometimes complicated things are just that, complicated. I believe we'll have better guides and tutorials if people stop treating Git like it's easier or more simple than it actually is.

envex 14y ago
Learning everything about git is hard, but learning enough git to use personally isn't that hard. I use git personally to keep backups of my code and deploy sites I work on. I dont' work with other developers so my knowledge of git is workable, but probably super small. Git gets complicated (but probably extremely useful) when working with bigger groups and tons of commits, branches and merges.
- wonnage 14y ago
  I feel like there's not much point in any sort of VCS lesson if it doesn't go over the more complex areas though. For example, reverting commits and resetting to earlier points in history are pretty essential actions, but both have their subtleties in Git (e.g why reverting a merge is hard, what 'reset' vs 'checkout' do) that will bite you if you don't know what you're doing. And everyone's fucked up via git rebase at least once. If you never need to merge, revert, or in general use any of the aspects of Git that make it special then it's totally reasonable to use something simpler like built-in OS versioning or a conceptually simpler VCS like SVN. But I guess there's no reason why Github would sponsor that, right?
  - Trufa 14y ago
    I disagree, I use the very basics of Git for my very small one man projects and was very happy about it! But it just so happened that some have grown to two or three man projects that benefited greatly of actually having a distributed system already setup, this wouldn't have happened if I would have been using the wrong tools! Git is quite easy to use a at a basic level and you know it will scale just as much as you probably need, I have no idea which of my projects will grow and how big, but I do know that using the right tools from the very beginning will not come back to bite me later!
  - spacemanaki 14y ago
    Sorry, maybe I've just been using Git for long enough not to remember the pain, but can you explain "why reverting a merge is hard"? Yeah, the Git command `revert` has a bunch of kind of esoteric flags, but once you understand that it can stomp on your working dir and/or your index, it's not that hard to use. I don't know what about reverting to a point prior to a merge would be difficult, unless you are in the middle of a merge at the time. Again, sounds like most trouble is caused by not understanding how to use what is a relatively powerful piece of software. No one is stopping you from using the built-in OS versioning, SVN or Dropbox. IMO that would be a nightmare for anything beyond the most simple cases.
    - jeltz 14y ago
      Reverting a merge with git revert is not hard but it is dangerous since if you want to merge the same branch later it will not merge the commit in the merged branch at the time of the reverted merge. You have to remember to revert the revert before attempting to merge again.
vgurgov 14y ago
There are a lot of cases even on bigger SW projects when for some roles(designers, tech writers) just basic git skills would save a lot of nerves to developers. Designers can fix small things, like images, tweak html a bit etc. They dont need to know how to create/merge new branches etc.. I dont see that Git is trying to pretend that its simple but i can see how that interactive tutorial can be incredible useful to a lot of people.
- joering2 14y ago
  its great that Git wants to explain what it got to offer to me, but why on step #7 it is mandatory to create a new account?? this killed entire positive experience, in my view.
  - rbxbx 14y ago
    Github wants to explain what Git has to offer you. I assume they want to see you as a potential customer, and if nothing else it gives you a real live low-risk git repository to play with after you're done with the tutorial.
amix 14y ago
I haven't read any books or longer tutorials on Git. I find it easy to use and if I run into trouble I just Google after help (which happens a few times a week). Throughout the day I mostly use 9 Git commands. Here are the top 9 commands I use: git checkout X git checkout -b new-branch git commit git add; git mv; git rm; git pull --rebase git rebase origin/master git push origin X I have used this for a long time without running into huge amounts of trouble (and if I need to revert back to a specific or do anything special I can always consult Google). The bottom line is: For simple cases Git is really simple to use and to learn. You don't need to become a Git master to use Git. The problem is that people introduce the powerful features of Git that only a few percentage of people will ever use.
- forrestthewoods 14y ago
  Everything you just said is exactly why Git is not simple and can not be learned in 15 minutes. Just by operating from the command line you've already left the realm of "simple" in my opinion. Having to learn 9 commands is not simple. Having to hit Google for help multiple times per week is not simple. I strongly, strongly disagree with your assertion that "for simple cases Git is really simple to use and to learn". I've watched many programmers, artists, and designers who have used source control struggle with Git from day 1. I'm sorry, it's just not simple and if it were this topic wouldn't come up over and over and over. Again, I say none of this as a slight to Git. Complicated things are complicated. That's ok, but pretending they aren't isn't helpful.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    > Just by operating from the command line you've already left the realm of "simple" in my opinion. Git is a tool for programmers. There's no excuse for a programmer to be uncomfortable with the command line.
    - gurkendoktor 14y ago
      I am a productive programmer and I am absolute uncomfortable with the command line. I can't count the times I have written svn commit -m "Finally fixed bug #123!" ...only to get some weird bizarro error because I should have used '' or escaped the !. This is usually when I am deeply focused on some programming language or bug #123. Tower.app is the only reason I've ever touched git, and the line-by-line staging and committing is nothing I would ever bother to do with a CLI.
radnor 14y ago
I used to be like you. I didn't understand git and had no real reason to - I was used to using things like TFS and Vault just fine at work. Then a friend of mine got a job with Github and I suddenly had a reason to care about git. Once I had a reason to learn I found it much easier to understand and use, and now I've even started using tfs-git at work for fun. So if you find git is hard or confusing just become friends with someone at github. ;)
phleet 14y ago
Pro Git does a really good job of explaining everything you need to know about git without trying to do it really quickly. After reading it, I have a much better understand of git, and can work myself (and others) out of pretty much any oh-my-god-I-destroyed-everything problem I run across. You haven't broken stuff for real until you need to use git reflog. Link to book, free to read online: http://git-scm.com/book/ http://git-scm.com/book/
hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
I'm with you. Git is powerful but in terms of user interface it's a complete train wreck. It doesn't need more guides or tutorials as much as it needs a sane command line and help messages. There's space for a Git fork, or a higher level "porcelain", as Linus himself calls it.
gpmcadam 14y ago
Complex is not the same as complicated. Git is complex, but not complicated.
- lloeki 14y ago
  Git makes me think of Go (the board game), Rule 30 and Rule 110 cellular automata and Conway's Game of Life: a few simple defining rules that can be explain in a minute, but incredibly rich behavior follows.
maayank 14y ago
Your comment reminded me of http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4201044 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4201044 (I posted it after reading your comment), that impishly hints at what you say.
Peaker 14y ago
Git is a very simple and powerful system covered by a hideous and complicated CLI. The simplicity is simply hidden.

envex 14y ago

Learning everything about git is hard, but learning enough git to use personally isn't that hard. I use git personally to keep backups of my code and deploy sites I work on. I dont' work with other developers so my knowledge of git is workable, but probably super small. Git gets complicated (but probably extremely useful) when working with bigger groups and tons of commits, branches and merges.

wonnage 14y ago
I feel like there's not much point in any sort of VCS lesson if it doesn't go over the more complex areas though. For example, reverting commits and resetting to earlier points in history are pretty essential actions, but both have their subtleties in Git (e.g why reverting a merge is hard, what 'reset' vs 'checkout' do) that will bite you if you don't know what you're doing. And everyone's fucked up via git rebase at least once. If you never need to merge, revert, or in general use any of the aspects of Git that make it special then it's totally reasonable to use something simpler like built-in OS versioning or a conceptually simpler VCS like SVN. But I guess there's no reason why Github would sponsor that, right?
- Trufa 14y ago
  I disagree, I use the very basics of Git for my very small one man projects and was very happy about it! But it just so happened that some have grown to two or three man projects that benefited greatly of actually having a distributed system already setup, this wouldn't have happened if I would have been using the wrong tools! Git is quite easy to use a at a basic level and you know it will scale just as much as you probably need, I have no idea which of my projects will grow and how big, but I do know that using the right tools from the very beginning will not come back to bite me later!
- spacemanaki 14y ago
  Sorry, maybe I've just been using Git for long enough not to remember the pain, but can you explain "why reverting a merge is hard"? Yeah, the Git command `revert` has a bunch of kind of esoteric flags, but once you understand that it can stomp on your working dir and/or your index, it's not that hard to use. I don't know what about reverting to a point prior to a merge would be difficult, unless you are in the middle of a merge at the time. Again, sounds like most trouble is caused by not understanding how to use what is a relatively powerful piece of software. No one is stopping you from using the built-in OS versioning, SVN or Dropbox. IMO that would be a nightmare for anything beyond the most simple cases.
  - jeltz 14y ago
    Reverting a merge with git revert is not hard but it is dangerous since if you want to merge the same branch later it will not merge the commit in the merged branch at the time of the reverted merge. You have to remember to revert the revert before attempting to merge again.

vgurgov 14y ago

There are a lot of cases even on bigger SW projects when for some roles(designers, tech writers) just basic git skills would save a lot of nerves to developers. Designers can fix small things, like images, tweak html a bit etc. They dont need to know how to create/merge new branches etc.. I dont see that Git is trying to pretend that its simple but i can see how that interactive tutorial can be incredible useful to a lot of people.

joering2 14y ago
its great that Git wants to explain what it got to offer to me, but why on step #7 it is mandatory to create a new account?? this killed entire positive experience, in my view.
- rbxbx 14y ago
  Github wants to explain what Git has to offer you. I assume they want to see you as a potential customer, and if nothing else it gives you a real live low-risk git repository to play with after you're done with the tutorial.

amix 14y ago

I haven't read any books or longer tutorials on Git. I find it easy to use and if I run into trouble I just Google after help (which happens a few times a week). Throughout the day I mostly use 9 Git commands. Here are the top 9 commands I use: git checkout X git checkout -b new-branch git commit git add; git mv; git rm; git pull --rebase git rebase origin/master git push origin X I have used this for a long time without running into huge amounts of trouble (and if I need to revert back to a specific or do anything special I can always consult Google). The bottom line is: For simple cases Git is really simple to use and to learn. You don't need to become a Git master to use Git. The problem is that people introduce the powerful features of Git that only a few percentage of people will ever use.

forrestthewoods 14y ago
Everything you just said is exactly why Git is not simple and can not be learned in 15 minutes. Just by operating from the command line you've already left the realm of "simple" in my opinion. Having to learn 9 commands is not simple. Having to hit Google for help multiple times per week is not simple. I strongly, strongly disagree with your assertion that "for simple cases Git is really simple to use and to learn". I've watched many programmers, artists, and designers who have used source control struggle with Git from day 1. I'm sorry, it's just not simple and if it were this topic wouldn't come up over and over and over. Again, I say none of this as a slight to Git. Complicated things are complicated. That's ok, but pretending they aren't isn't helpful.
- philwelch 14y ago
  > Just by operating from the command line you've already left the realm of "simple" in my opinion. Git is a tool for programmers. There's no excuse for a programmer to be uncomfortable with the command line.
  - gurkendoktor 14y ago
    I am a productive programmer and I am absolute uncomfortable with the command line. I can't count the times I have written svn commit -m "Finally fixed bug #123!" ...only to get some weird bizarro error because I should have used '' or escaped the !. This is usually when I am deeply focused on some programming language or bug #123. Tower.app is the only reason I've ever touched git, and the line-by-line staging and committing is nothing I would ever bother to do with a CLI.

radnor 14y ago

I used to be like you. I didn't understand git and had no real reason to - I was used to using things like TFS and Vault just fine at work. Then a friend of mine got a job with Github and I suddenly had a reason to care about git. Once I had a reason to learn I found it much easier to understand and use, and now I've even started using tfs-git at work for fun. So if you find git is hard or confusing just become friends with someone at github. ;)

phleet 14y ago

Pro Git does a really good job of explaining everything you need to know about git without trying to do it really quickly. After reading it, I have a much better understand of git, and can work myself (and others) out of pretty much any oh-my-god-I-destroyed-everything problem I run across. You haven't broken stuff for real until you need to use git reflog. Link to book, free to read online: http://git-scm.com/book/ http://git-scm.com/book/

hcarvalhoalves 14y ago

I'm with you. Git is powerful but in terms of user interface it's a complete train wreck. It doesn't need more guides or tutorials as much as it needs a sane command line and help messages. There's space for a Git fork, or a higher level "porcelain", as Linus himself calls it.

gpmcadam 14y ago

Complex is not the same as complicated. Git is complex, but not complicated.

lloeki 14y ago
Git makes me think of Go (the board game), Rule 30 and Rule 110 cellular automata and Conway's Game of Life: a few simple defining rules that can be explain in a minute, but incredibly rich behavior follows.

maayank 14y ago

Your comment reminded me of http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4201044 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4201044 (I posted it after reading your comment), that impishly hints at what you say.

Peaker 14y ago

Git is a very simple and powerful system covered by a hideous and complicated CLI. The simplicity is simply hidden.