4 ms·

I am still not convinced that scratched non-stick stuff is a real danger. As far as I know, the whole point of PTFE (what the coating normally is made of) is th

I am still not convinced that scratched non-stick stuff is a real danger. As far as I know, the whole point of PTFE (what the coating normally is made of) is that it’s chemically mostly inert. I don’t know the mechanism by which eating PTFE flakes would be harmful. I’m not a chemist though so I would be grateful for corrections.

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
It's the perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) that's the issue. It's mainly been phased out of cookware now, so if it's less than 10 years old then you should be okay.
- echoangle 2y ago
  But wasn’t that only used in production? Some bouillon is also made by using hydrochloric acid, but it is neutralized and only NaCl remains. Isn’t it the same here? The PFOA is basically used as a precursor for PTFE and doesn’t remain in the product?
  - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
    I'm also not a chemist, but the coatings used to contain significant quantities of PFOAs that get released into food etc. from scratches. There's also doubts about how PFOA-free the newer "non-toxic" pans actually are. Also, there's the issue of over-heating (more than 260°C) pans as that will release toxic gases that can be lethal to birds and cause "teflon flu" in humans. https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/you-cant-always-trust-claims-on-non-toxic-cookware-a4849321487/ https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/y... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004896972205392X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- vitus 2y ago
  This particular article seems to be referring to brominated flame retardants (BFRs) -- there's a single reference to "PBDEs" in the text, and the original cited research paper [0] talks about various BFRs. The purported issue is with plastics recycling, where both new and old products may contain previously banned compounds. For what it's worth, the simulated cooking experiments involved cutting up the utensils into small pieces, grinding those into a powder, then vigorously combined with hexane (the terms "vortexing" and "ultrasonication" are used), then subsequently combined with sulfuric acid, and dried. Small samples were then immersed in olive oil maintained at 160 Celsius for 15 minutes. (I may have misinterpreted this section, but it described the first step as "pre-treatment of samples") It's perhaps interesting to note that the only sample listed as "new" in Table 1 with substantial levels of bromine was a thermos cup lid (180 μg/g), and only a small number of other items had detectable levels in the 3-10 μg/g range. Meanwhile, many samples purchased to 2011 had levels well over 100μg/g. That said, I also don't know how representative this study is in the context of, say, a thermos lid if you're not storing any liquids substantially above 100 C. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969717321708 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489...

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago

It's the perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) that's the issue. It's mainly been phased out of cookware now, so if it's less than 10 years old then you should be okay.

echoangle 2y ago
But wasn’t that only used in production? Some bouillon is also made by using hydrochloric acid, but it is neutralized and only NaCl remains. Isn’t it the same here? The PFOA is basically used as a precursor for PTFE and doesn’t remain in the product?
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  I'm also not a chemist, but the coatings used to contain significant quantities of PFOAs that get released into food etc. from scratches. There's also doubts about how PFOA-free the newer "non-toxic" pans actually are. Also, there's the issue of over-heating (more than 260°C) pans as that will release toxic gases that can be lethal to birds and cause "teflon flu" in humans. https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/you-cant-always-trust-claims-on-non-toxic-cookware-a4849321487/ https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/y... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004896972205392X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
vitus 2y ago
This particular article seems to be referring to brominated flame retardants (BFRs) -- there's a single reference to "PBDEs" in the text, and the original cited research paper [0] talks about various BFRs. The purported issue is with plastics recycling, where both new and old products may contain previously banned compounds. For what it's worth, the simulated cooking experiments involved cutting up the utensils into small pieces, grinding those into a powder, then vigorously combined with hexane (the terms "vortexing" and "ultrasonication" are used), then subsequently combined with sulfuric acid, and dried. Small samples were then immersed in olive oil maintained at 160 Celsius for 15 minutes. (I may have misinterpreted this section, but it described the first step as "pre-treatment of samples") It's perhaps interesting to note that the only sample listed as "new" in Table 1 with substantial levels of bromine was a thermos cup lid (180 μg/g), and only a small number of other items had detectable levels in the 3-10 μg/g range. Meanwhile, many samples purchased to 2011 had levels well over 100μg/g. That said, I also don't know how representative this study is in the context of, say, a thermos lid if you're not storing any liquids substantially above 100 C. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969717321708 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489...