3 ms·

> you can say that they shouldn't use non-stick cookware Using metal spatulas with non-stick is a big no due to the scratching. Ideally, you should throw away

> you can say that they shouldn't use non-stick cookware Using metal spatulas with non-stick is a big no due to the scratching. Ideally, you should throw away any non-stick cookware that gets a scratch on it. You should use silicone spatulas instead.

echoangle 2y ago
I am still not convinced that scratched non-stick stuff is a real danger. As far as I know, the whole point of PTFE (what the coating normally is made of) is that it’s chemically mostly inert. I don’t know the mechanism by which eating PTFE flakes would be harmful. I’m not a chemist though so I would be grateful for corrections.
- ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
  It's the perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) that's the issue. It's mainly been phased out of cookware now, so if it's less than 10 years old then you should be okay.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    But wasn’t that only used in production? Some bouillon is also made by using hydrochloric acid, but it is neutralized and only NaCl remains. Isn’t it the same here? The PFOA is basically used as a precursor for PTFE and doesn’t remain in the product?
    - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
      I'm also not a chemist, but the coatings used to contain significant quantities of PFOAs that get released into food etc. from scratches. There's also doubts about how PFOA-free the newer "non-toxic" pans actually are. Also, there's the issue of over-heating (more than 260°C) pans as that will release toxic gases that can be lethal to birds and cause "teflon flu" in humans. https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/you-cant-always-trust-claims-on-non-toxic-cookware-a4849321487/ https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/y... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004896972205392X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489...
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - vitus 2y ago
    This particular article seems to be referring to brominated flame retardants (BFRs) -- there's a single reference to "PBDEs" in the text, and the original cited research paper [0] talks about various BFRs. The purported issue is with plastics recycling, where both new and old products may contain previously banned compounds. For what it's worth, the simulated cooking experiments involved cutting up the utensils into small pieces, grinding those into a powder, then vigorously combined with hexane (the terms "vortexing" and "ultrasonication" are used), then subsequently combined with sulfuric acid, and dried. Small samples were then immersed in olive oil maintained at 160 Celsius for 15 minutes. (I may have misinterpreted this section, but it described the first step as "pre-treatment of samples") It's perhaps interesting to note that the only sample listed as "new" in Table 1 with substantial levels of bromine was a thermos cup lid (180 μg/g), and only a small number of other items had detectable levels in the 3-10 μg/g range. Meanwhile, many samples purchased to 2011 had levels well over 100μg/g. That said, I also don't know how representative this study is in the context of, say, a thermos lid if you're not storing any liquids substantially above 100 C. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969717321708 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489...
kazinator 2y ago
The big "no" with non-stick is using steel wool scrubbers for cleaning. That and using sharp instruments like forks. A nice, smoothly polished stainless steel spatula with round corners and a slightly convex edge shouldn't do anything to your non-stick pan. You have to deliberately be trying to damage the non-stick surface with such a spatula to do any harm. If the non-stick surface actually working, you shouldn't be using any force to scrape anything off. And there's margin for that. I use one of those 5-in-1 painter's tools to remove grime from just about any surface without damaging it. I would cheerfully use it to take a dried paint splatter off a $100K Steinway. :)

echoangle 2y ago

I am still not convinced that scratched non-stick stuff is a real danger. As far as I know, the whole point of PTFE (what the coating normally is made of) is that it’s chemically mostly inert. I don’t know the mechanism by which eating PTFE flakes would be harmful. I’m not a chemist though so I would be grateful for corrections.

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
It's the perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) that's the issue. It's mainly been phased out of cookware now, so if it's less than 10 years old then you should be okay.
- echoangle 2y ago
  But wasn’t that only used in production? Some bouillon is also made by using hydrochloric acid, but it is neutralized and only NaCl remains. Isn’t it the same here? The PFOA is basically used as a precursor for PTFE and doesn’t remain in the product?
  - ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
    I'm also not a chemist, but the coatings used to contain significant quantities of PFOAs that get released into food etc. from scratches. There's also doubts about how PFOA-free the newer "non-toxic" pans actually are. Also, there's the issue of over-heating (more than 260°C) pans as that will release toxic gases that can be lethal to birds and cause "teflon flu" in humans. https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/you-cant-always-trust-claims-on-non-toxic-cookware-a4849321487/ https://www.consumerreports.org/toxic-chemicals-substances/y... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004896972205392X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- vitus 2y ago
  This particular article seems to be referring to brominated flame retardants (BFRs) -- there's a single reference to "PBDEs" in the text, and the original cited research paper [0] talks about various BFRs. The purported issue is with plastics recycling, where both new and old products may contain previously banned compounds. For what it's worth, the simulated cooking experiments involved cutting up the utensils into small pieces, grinding those into a powder, then vigorously combined with hexane (the terms "vortexing" and "ultrasonication" are used), then subsequently combined with sulfuric acid, and dried. Small samples were then immersed in olive oil maintained at 160 Celsius for 15 minutes. (I may have misinterpreted this section, but it described the first step as "pre-treatment of samples") It's perhaps interesting to note that the only sample listed as "new" in Table 1 with substantial levels of bromine was a thermos cup lid (180 μg/g), and only a small number of other items had detectable levels in the 3-10 μg/g range. Meanwhile, many samples purchased to 2011 had levels well over 100μg/g. That said, I also don't know how representative this study is in the context of, say, a thermos lid if you're not storing any liquids substantially above 100 C. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969717321708 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00489...

kazinator 2y ago

The big "no" with non-stick is using steel wool scrubbers for cleaning. That and using sharp instruments like forks. A nice, smoothly polished stainless steel spatula with round corners and a slightly convex edge shouldn't do anything to your non-stick pan. You have to deliberately be trying to damage the non-stick surface with such a spatula to do any harm. If the non-stick surface actually working, you shouldn't be using any force to scrape anything off. And there's margin for that. I use one of those 5-in-1 painter's tools to remove grime from just about any surface without damaging it. I would cheerfully use it to take a dried paint splatter off a $100K Steinway. :)