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I thought this was going to be about clean cooking fuels. One of the significant projects of the WHO is transitioning the world towards cooking with clean fuels

I thought this was going to be about clean cooking fuels. One of the significant projects of the WHO is transitioning the world towards cooking with clean fuels that reduce indoor air pollution. In the worst case certain populations are burning plastics to heat their water, food, and homes, and as you can imagine this is incredibly destructive to health.

user3939382 2y ago
We also need trash collection, otherwise people are forced to burn plastic to get rid of their trash. The whole city of Kinshasa is nauseating due to this.
ahoka 2y ago
Even in developed countries like the US a lot of people burn fossil fuels for indoor cooking, even when they could choose a better alternative.
- bluGill 2y ago
  What better option? resistance electric is clearly worse in other ways. I've heard induction is good but it is an expensive luxury option and not common even in that niche. i've heard it is reasonable priced in other countries but not the us.
  - everdrive 2y ago
    It's a tale as old as time: "I don't want to poison myself, but I also cannot bear a minor inconvenience." This is honestly one of the main reasons I believe that environmentalism will never meaningfully succeed.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      There are many options to make environmentalism also the better choice. My electric is 104% from wind last year (which is to say for every 100kwh my entire city used last year, my utility claims they generated 104kwh from wind - I don't know what they did when the wind wasn't blowing or what happened to that other 4kwh) Cooks tell me induction is better, but there are enough roadblocks that shouldn't exist such that I can't try it. My real rant though is there is no reason why induction should be an expesnive niche. There is no reason I should pay extra for features that don't cost extra.
  - namibj 2y ago
    You can get an induction hob for 50 bucks at IKEA. So spending more than a 200 $ premium over a resistance stove with 4 hobs means you're being ripped off or spending on luxury.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Right, but the premium tends more to $1000 for the brands that have earned a bad reputation. If you want something that you can expect to be good quality you are looking at more like $2000.
    - GJim 2y ago
      One needs more than a single cheap induction hob to cook a family meal!
      - bmicraft 2y ago
        Okay so keep your current ones, and mainly use the induction one for which will probably satisfy upwards of 80% of your needs anyway.
      - namibj 2y ago
        Hence getting the 200 $ total of 4 hobs as a premium to whatever the base standalone stove costs, assuming that you could in the factory just mount these units in the hobs. Just need to modify a little to have remote control as the original uses a microcontroller to handle the touch IO and the high frequency transistor triggering, which may both not work over a wire long enough to reach from the back hob to the front of the stove where you'd want the controls to be to not reach over or even in-between the hobs in operation.
  - andruby 2y ago
    Is $59 for a single hub, or $849 for a full cooktop really that much of an "expensive luxury"? These things last for decades and cost less than most mobile phones. https://www.ikea.com/us/en/cat/induction-cooktops-20813/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/cat/induction-cooktops-20813/
    - bluGill 2y ago
      A hob takes up space my tiny kitchen doesn't have to spare, and besides the limited power available at the wall in the US means it isn't that useful. In the US we almost always use a range not a cooktop. I need one with an oven. Something like https://www.homedepot.com/p/Amana-30-in-4-Burner-Element-Freestanding-Electric-Range-in-Black-with-Easy-Clean-Glass-Door-ACR4203MNB/327042450 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Amana-30-in-4-Burner-Element-Fre... - which is several hundred cheaper than what you linked. As long as I'm going to replace what I have, spending a little more for the other features I want seems like a good idea - I will likely use it for decades as you say, and induction is in a very limited selection such that I can't really get any other options at any price. (well I did eliminate some Samsung options - Samsung has earned their bad reputation in kitchen appliances)
      - epcoa 2y ago
        You're linking to literally the lowest end builder grade piece of crap* non flat range, you even picked the one that doesn't have the oven window! I've even had near slumlords at least spring for the windowed glass top GE special when it was on sale. (I say crap, but that is unfair, having used these growing up, they are simple and basically won't break down and exceptionally easy to get parts for and repair [because it doesn't have any, not even a timer], and if the tenants destroy it, who cares). But Ikea doesn't even cater to that market at all, so it's disingenous to use that as a counter example. Most people are looking for something at least slightly better and those are going to cost more in the $800 and up range. And now that I have a job and a little money I would never willingly go back to a calrod electric cooktop. I'm sure there are some John Bircher types that pine for the days of mom's 1961 GE P7, but that seems like a minority. This might be a better comparison: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Frigidaire-Gallery-30-in-6-2-cu-ft-5-Burner-Element-Slide-In-Induction-Range-Smudge-Proof-Stainless-w-Total-Convection-Air-Fry-GCFI3060BF/325645579 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Frigidaire-Gallery-30-in-6-2-cu-... Yes, induction is still more expensive, but it is not crazy more expensive either for middle class homeowners that no matter the fuel want something nicer than that shitty Amana linked (that's low end even for grad student slums). What must have features are you unable to find in the current crop of induction ranges?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- weberer 2y ago
  In the US and other developed countries, they burn clean fuels like natural gas or propane. These emit minimal soot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_fuel#/media/File:Access_to_clean_fuels_and_technologies_for_cooking,_OWID.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_fuel#/media/File:Access_...
  - fooblaster 2y ago
    Unfortunately perhaps not as clean as you would hope: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9819315/#:~:text=5.,mitigation%20strategies%20through%20intervention%20studies https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9819315/#:~:text=5.....

user3939382 2y ago

We also need trash collection, otherwise people are forced to burn plastic to get rid of their trash. The whole city of Kinshasa is nauseating due to this.

ahoka 2y ago

Even in developed countries like the US a lot of people burn fossil fuels for indoor cooking, even when they could choose a better alternative.

bluGill 2y ago
What better option? resistance electric is clearly worse in other ways. I've heard induction is good but it is an expensive luxury option and not common even in that niche. i've heard it is reasonable priced in other countries but not the us.
- everdrive 2y ago
  It's a tale as old as time: "I don't want to poison myself, but I also cannot bear a minor inconvenience." This is honestly one of the main reasons I believe that environmentalism will never meaningfully succeed.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    There are many options to make environmentalism also the better choice. My electric is 104% from wind last year (which is to say for every 100kwh my entire city used last year, my utility claims they generated 104kwh from wind - I don't know what they did when the wind wasn't blowing or what happened to that other 4kwh) Cooks tell me induction is better, but there are enough roadblocks that shouldn't exist such that I can't try it. My real rant though is there is no reason why induction should be an expesnive niche. There is no reason I should pay extra for features that don't cost extra.
- namibj 2y ago
  You can get an induction hob for 50 bucks at IKEA. So spending more than a 200 $ premium over a resistance stove with 4 hobs means you're being ripped off or spending on luxury.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Right, but the premium tends more to $1000 for the brands that have earned a bad reputation. If you want something that you can expect to be good quality you are looking at more like $2000.
  - GJim 2y ago
    One needs more than a single cheap induction hob to cook a family meal!
    - bmicraft 2y ago
      Okay so keep your current ones, and mainly use the induction one for which will probably satisfy upwards of 80% of your needs anyway.
    - namibj 2y ago
      Hence getting the 200 $ total of 4 hobs as a premium to whatever the base standalone stove costs, assuming that you could in the factory just mount these units in the hobs. Just need to modify a little to have remote control as the original uses a microcontroller to handle the touch IO and the high frequency transistor triggering, which may both not work over a wire long enough to reach from the back hob to the front of the stove where you'd want the controls to be to not reach over or even in-between the hobs in operation.
- andruby 2y ago
  Is $59 for a single hub, or $849 for a full cooktop really that much of an "expensive luxury"? These things last for decades and cost less than most mobile phones. https://www.ikea.com/us/en/cat/induction-cooktops-20813/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/cat/induction-cooktops-20813/
  - bluGill 2y ago
    A hob takes up space my tiny kitchen doesn't have to spare, and besides the limited power available at the wall in the US means it isn't that useful. In the US we almost always use a range not a cooktop. I need one with an oven. Something like https://www.homedepot.com/p/Amana-30-in-4-Burner-Element-Freestanding-Electric-Range-in-Black-with-Easy-Clean-Glass-Door-ACR4203MNB/327042450 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Amana-30-in-4-Burner-Element-Fre... - which is several hundred cheaper than what you linked. As long as I'm going to replace what I have, spending a little more for the other features I want seems like a good idea - I will likely use it for decades as you say, and induction is in a very limited selection such that I can't really get any other options at any price. (well I did eliminate some Samsung options - Samsung has earned their bad reputation in kitchen appliances)
    - epcoa 2y ago
      You're linking to literally the lowest end builder grade piece of crap* non flat range, you even picked the one that doesn't have the oven window! I've even had near slumlords at least spring for the windowed glass top GE special when it was on sale. (I say crap, but that is unfair, having used these growing up, they are simple and basically won't break down and exceptionally easy to get parts for and repair [because it doesn't have any, not even a timer], and if the tenants destroy it, who cares). But Ikea doesn't even cater to that market at all, so it's disingenous to use that as a counter example. Most people are looking for something at least slightly better and those are going to cost more in the $800 and up range. And now that I have a job and a little money I would never willingly go back to a calrod electric cooktop. I'm sure there are some John Bircher types that pine for the days of mom's 1961 GE P7, but that seems like a minority. This might be a better comparison: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Frigidaire-Gallery-30-in-6-2-cu-ft-5-Burner-Element-Slide-In-Induction-Range-Smudge-Proof-Stainless-w-Total-Convection-Air-Fry-GCFI3060BF/325645579 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Frigidaire-Gallery-30-in-6-2-cu-... Yes, induction is still more expensive, but it is not crazy more expensive either for middle class homeowners that no matter the fuel want something nicer than that shitty Amana linked (that's low end even for grad student slums). What must have features are you unable to find in the current crop of induction ranges?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
weberer 2y ago
In the US and other developed countries, they burn clean fuels like natural gas or propane. These emit minimal soot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_fuel#/media/File:Access_to_clean_fuels_and_technologies_for_cooking,_OWID.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_fuel#/media/File:Access_...
- fooblaster 2y ago
  Unfortunately perhaps not as clean as you would hope: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9819315/#:~:text=5.,mitigation%20strategies%20through%20intervention%20studies https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9819315/#:~:text=5.....