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> (Rockstar really should’ve made this a separate launch option like other games do) This is what happens when a producer's/product manager's cherished KPIs co

> (Rockstar really should’ve made this a separate launch option like other games do) This is what happens when a producer's/product manager's cherished KPIs come before UX. In their mind, adding a toggle in the launcher would lead to lower engagement and player acquisition. We, the players, fail to recognize how our gaming experience can be enhanced by using social features like leader boards, guilds, or in game chat. We are not enlightened. Think about all the fun and exciting connections you'd miss out on if all the social crap was off by default or in an easily accessible place. I'm honestly surprised it's a command line option. My guess is that the requirement originated externally.

veunes 2y ago
If the decision came from an external party, it's likely from publishers
parl_match 2y ago
> This is what happens when a producer's/product manager's cherished KPIs come before UX. > In their mind, adding a toggle in the launcher would lead to lower engagement and player acquisition. Not "in their mind". It does and they have the data to show it. Very frustrating situation.
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  It's GTA, if they want to get to Mars... release six there. Just shoot the gold copy out there. People will show up.
  - ahartmetz 2y ago
    Not sure if, at this point, it costs SpaceX more money to get to Mars, or Rockstar Games to develop GTA 6. AAA budgets are insane (with IMO meagre results - I don't like most of them).
    - bravetraveler 2y ago
      Tough call. Everything is bloated
    - ljm 2y ago
      A lot of time and money goes into AAA games and I think there’s an inverse relationship at play where the higher the budget is, the more risk averse the studio is. So you end up with a whole suite of AAA releases that all play it safe and just copy small innovations from each other, nobody really daring to push the envelope too far. I don’t really enjoy those games either any more. Too big, too long, and the gameplay feels more like running errands and checking off a todo list than having fun. Release cycles in the 90s and early 2000s were pretty tight, slowly getting longer as storage and graphical firepower increased. 3D was totally new and studios were trying out all kinds of crazy ideas for games. These days you can basically expect 90% of mainstream releases to follow the same playbook.
- soderfoo 2y ago
  Yeah, it's just me being an idealist and projecting. I acknowledge what the analytics show, but always allude to the hypothetical casual loner segment who we lack data on because we pushed them away or we don't measure things relevant to them. I'm a boomer millenial, or whatever we're called now, and never took to online gaming, so I'm part of this segment. Casual loners are irrelevant to the monetization and in game economy people, resulting in relegation to second class status. Until someone figures out a way to milk this segment for that juicy recurring revenue, consumable$, $kins, etc..., we must accept our fate, largely an afterthought.
  - romwell 2y ago
    I'm disagreeing with everything you're saying here. Not because you're wrong. But because I'm in this picture and I don't like it, and I just found out that "boomer millennial" is a fitting descriptor. Goddamit.
    - Uvix 2y ago
      You’re in denial now; you’ll work your way to acceptance soon enough (as someone who’s done the same thing).
    - soderfoo 2y ago
      Thanks for the chuckle, brightened up my day.
  - Eisenstein 2y ago
    Yet we are the people who started gaming on PCs -- we made consumer 3D accelerators profitable and spent the time writing about them on forums in the 90s and 2000s. We certainly have the power to move markets.
  - bitsandboots 2y ago
    People who can't be monetized sometimes are valued in their opinions. If someone principled really likes a thing, it can gain more popularity by others who trust that person adopting it. Maybe not loners. But there's still reason to make users happy because viral marketing impact cannot be measured well.
- _factor 2y ago
  Government regulation of toxic waste dumping negatively impacts profit margins. We have the data to prove this, very frustrating situation.
  - Workaccount2 2y ago
    To be fair, the societal harm from deciding to play multiplayer instead of single player is probably a few orders of magnitude less than toxic waste in the water.
    - crest 2y ago
      Granted, but how about the societal harm from an exploitable bug in one or more of these rootkits? Millions of gaming computers could wreck some havoc in the hands of an even slightly creative attacker not restrained by moral or economic considerations…
  - xelamonster 2y ago
    But that's why the government had to regulate it. If companies have financial incentive to do something they're going to do it, to make them stop that incentive must be removed. I don't think that comment was intending to justify the situation.
  - parl_match 2y ago
    That would not be a frustrating situation, that would be a great situation (the harm is being blocked).
- hx8 2y ago
  People cannot say no if you never ask for informed consent. If the PC is personal then a root kit is a violation.
  - bippihippi1 2y ago
    read the TOS
squigz 2y ago
> We, the players, fail to recognize how our gaming experience can be enhanced by using social features like leader boards, guilds, or in game chat. We are not enlightened. > Think about all the fun and exciting connections you'd miss out on if all the social crap was off by default or in an easily accessible place. Were you being sarcastic with these lines?

veunes 2y ago

If the decision came from an external party, it's likely from publishers

parl_match 2y ago

> This is what happens when a producer's/product manager's cherished KPIs come before UX. > In their mind, adding a toggle in the launcher would lead to lower engagement and player acquisition. Not "in their mind". It does and they have the data to show it. Very frustrating situation.

bravetraveler 2y ago
It's GTA, if they want to get to Mars... release six there. Just shoot the gold copy out there. People will show up.
- ahartmetz 2y ago
  Not sure if, at this point, it costs SpaceX more money to get to Mars, or Rockstar Games to develop GTA 6. AAA budgets are insane (with IMO meagre results - I don't like most of them).
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    Tough call. Everything is bloated
  - ljm 2y ago
    A lot of time and money goes into AAA games and I think there’s an inverse relationship at play where the higher the budget is, the more risk averse the studio is. So you end up with a whole suite of AAA releases that all play it safe and just copy small innovations from each other, nobody really daring to push the envelope too far. I don’t really enjoy those games either any more. Too big, too long, and the gameplay feels more like running errands and checking off a todo list than having fun. Release cycles in the 90s and early 2000s were pretty tight, slowly getting longer as storage and graphical firepower increased. 3D was totally new and studios were trying out all kinds of crazy ideas for games. These days you can basically expect 90% of mainstream releases to follow the same playbook.
soderfoo 2y ago
Yeah, it's just me being an idealist and projecting. I acknowledge what the analytics show, but always allude to the hypothetical casual loner segment who we lack data on because we pushed them away or we don't measure things relevant to them. I'm a boomer millenial, or whatever we're called now, and never took to online gaming, so I'm part of this segment. Casual loners are irrelevant to the monetization and in game economy people, resulting in relegation to second class status. Until someone figures out a way to milk this segment for that juicy recurring revenue, consumable$, $kins, etc..., we must accept our fate, largely an afterthought.
- romwell 2y ago
  I'm disagreeing with everything you're saying here. Not because you're wrong. But because I'm in this picture and I don't like it, and I just found out that "boomer millennial" is a fitting descriptor. Goddamit.
  - Uvix 2y ago
    You’re in denial now; you’ll work your way to acceptance soon enough (as someone who’s done the same thing).
  - soderfoo 2y ago
    Thanks for the chuckle, brightened up my day.
- Eisenstein 2y ago
  Yet we are the people who started gaming on PCs -- we made consumer 3D accelerators profitable and spent the time writing about them on forums in the 90s and 2000s. We certainly have the power to move markets.
- bitsandboots 2y ago
  People who can't be monetized sometimes are valued in their opinions. If someone principled really likes a thing, it can gain more popularity by others who trust that person adopting it. Maybe not loners. But there's still reason to make users happy because viral marketing impact cannot be measured well.
_factor 2y ago
Government regulation of toxic waste dumping negatively impacts profit margins. We have the data to prove this, very frustrating situation.
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  To be fair, the societal harm from deciding to play multiplayer instead of single player is probably a few orders of magnitude less than toxic waste in the water.
  - crest 2y ago
    Granted, but how about the societal harm from an exploitable bug in one or more of these rootkits? Millions of gaming computers could wreck some havoc in the hands of an even slightly creative attacker not restrained by moral or economic considerations…
- xelamonster 2y ago
  But that's why the government had to regulate it. If companies have financial incentive to do something they're going to do it, to make them stop that incentive must be removed. I don't think that comment was intending to justify the situation.
- parl_match 2y ago
  That would not be a frustrating situation, that would be a great situation (the harm is being blocked).
hx8 2y ago
People cannot say no if you never ask for informed consent. If the PC is personal then a root kit is a violation.
- bippihippi1 2y ago
  read the TOS

squigz 2y ago

> We, the players, fail to recognize how our gaming experience can be enhanced by using social features like leader boards, guilds, or in game chat. We are not enlightened. > Think about all the fun and exciting connections you'd miss out on if all the social crap was off by default or in an easily accessible place. Were you being sarcastic with these lines?