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Steve Yegge wrote about this ages ago: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/programmings-dirtiest-little-secret.html?m=1 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008

by emtel 2y ago

Steve Yegge wrote about this ages ago: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/programmings-dirtiest-little-secret.html?m=1 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/programmings-dirties... People always like to say "thinking, not typing, is the bottleneck". This is a totally wrong way to think about it, because for the most part you don't think while you type. You think, then you type. They happen at different times! The more time you spend typing, the longer it is before you can start thinking again.

lifthrasiir 2y ago
> You think, then you type. They happen at different times! Really? I can certainly type while thinking cause I did so while writing this very sentence, and I have assumed that they are pipelined and improving one without another is meaningless up to some threshold. I should note that I don't think in English, but I can pull English words incrementally from my mind so I don't think that matters much anyway.
- sam_lowry_ 2y ago
  Physical and mental activities compete for resources. In orienteering, people are taught to stop before making important decisions.
  - lifthrasiir 2y ago
    I don't know how much resource is shared for physical and mental activies (my wild guess is "a bit but not much", but I don't have any backing evidence), but I'm sure that important decisions are exceptions rather than norms.
  - lolc 2y ago
    Learning to touch type is all about automating the typing, reducing the cognitive load. The load is reduced to a point where one is thinking ahead a few words and the typing sub-process (as in sub-conscious) works the queue. That queue can be dozens of characters long. But stick one non-touch char in there and the queue blocks until that char is cleared. I've been orienteering and the only time I'd stop is when the terrain didn't allow safely reading the map while in a jog. Or when I encounter an unexpected landmark, indicating I lost my orientation. Otherwise everything is planned while moving towards and scanning for the next waypoint in the queue.
- emtel 2y ago
  I meant for coding. Typically I have to think for a bit before I decide what code I want to write.
Someone 2y ago
> because for the most part you don't think while you type. I think that isn’t true if you’re a good enough typist. Once typing is automated enough, you can (somewhat) multitask. It is similar to driving a car. If you just learned driving, you can’t do anything else while driving, but if you gain experience, you learn to detect when the road needs you full attention and when it doesn’t, and can talk or think about other things while driving. I think being able to think of what to write next while typing may be even more important for a fluent conversation than typing faster. It will be difficult to test whether that’s true, though, because automating the act of typing also makes you type faster.
karmakaze 2y ago
Not only is typing speed not a significant factor, neither do I find that thinking speed is either. The most important thing is what to think about and what to notice. Going in the right direction and not changing directions frequently and arbitrarily is what more than makes up for speed. Knowing your tools and underlying tech is also a must and the better you know it the better your intuition will be.
maples37 2y ago
I think it depends. As an analogy, when you're having an in-person conversation, how often do you pause and think before responding, versus forming your thought and speaking it in real-time? There's definitely times to stop and think for a moment before replying, but there's also times where I'm speaking my thoughts as it's formed. Likewise, if you're comfortable and quick and "at home" with typing, then I'd argue there's no reason you can't type as you're forming your thought just like you speak as you're forming your thought. (Admittedly I'm typing this on my phone, so not at the speed of my thoughts right now, but I know for sure I've done it over Slack with my coworkers and group chats on Telegram, especially when shooting short quick questions and answers back and forth)
JohnFen 2y ago
> for the most part you don't think while you type. You think, then you type. They happen at different times! That's not my experience at all. Typing happens without conscious effort, and I'm certainly thinking about what I'm doing while I'm typing.

by emtel 2y ago

lifthrasiir 2y ago

> You think, then you type. They happen at different times! Really? I can certainly type while thinking cause I did so while writing this very sentence, and I have assumed that they are pipelined and improving one without another is meaningless up to some threshold. I should note that I don't think in English, but I can pull English words incrementally from my mind so I don't think that matters much anyway.

sam_lowry_ 2y ago
Physical and mental activities compete for resources. In orienteering, people are taught to stop before making important decisions.
- lifthrasiir 2y ago
  I don't know how much resource is shared for physical and mental activies (my wild guess is "a bit but not much", but I don't have any backing evidence), but I'm sure that important decisions are exceptions rather than norms.
- lolc 2y ago
  Learning to touch type is all about automating the typing, reducing the cognitive load. The load is reduced to a point where one is thinking ahead a few words and the typing sub-process (as in sub-conscious) works the queue. That queue can be dozens of characters long. But stick one non-touch char in there and the queue blocks until that char is cleared. I've been orienteering and the only time I'd stop is when the terrain didn't allow safely reading the map while in a jog. Or when I encounter an unexpected landmark, indicating I lost my orientation. Otherwise everything is planned while moving towards and scanning for the next waypoint in the queue.
emtel 2y ago
I meant for coding. Typically I have to think for a bit before I decide what code I want to write.

Someone 2y ago

> because for the most part you don't think while you type. I think that isn’t true if you’re a good enough typist. Once typing is automated enough, you can (somewhat) multitask. It is similar to driving a car. If you just learned driving, you can’t do anything else while driving, but if you gain experience, you learn to detect when the road needs you full attention and when it doesn’t, and can talk or think about other things while driving. I think being able to think of what to write next while typing may be even more important for a fluent conversation than typing faster. It will be difficult to test whether that’s true, though, because automating the act of typing also makes you type faster.

karmakaze 2y ago

Not only is typing speed not a significant factor, neither do I find that thinking speed is either. The most important thing is what to think about and what to notice. Going in the right direction and not changing directions frequently and arbitrarily is what more than makes up for speed. Knowing your tools and underlying tech is also a must and the better you know it the better your intuition will be.

maples37 2y ago

I think it depends. As an analogy, when you're having an in-person conversation, how often do you pause and think before responding, versus forming your thought and speaking it in real-time? There's definitely times to stop and think for a moment before replying, but there's also times where I'm speaking my thoughts as it's formed. Likewise, if you're comfortable and quick and "at home" with typing, then I'd argue there's no reason you can't type as you're forming your thought just like you speak as you're forming your thought. (Admittedly I'm typing this on my phone, so not at the speed of my thoughts right now, but I know for sure I've done it over Slack with my coworkers and group chats on Telegram, especially when shooting short quick questions and answers back and forth)

JohnFen 2y ago

> for the most part you don't think while you type. You think, then you type. They happen at different times! That's not my experience at all. Typing happens without conscious effort, and I'm certainly thinking about what I'm doing while I'm typing.