34 ms·

If you're still barking in the general direction of google and similarly sized search engines, good luck. I'd rather look towards kagi and brave.

viraptor 2y ago
I feel too that we're already past the point where they could fix things. They must be aware of issues and do the exact opposite of fixing them. It's a question how fast we can convince general public to move away, rather than when Google will improve.
- jasonvorhe 2y ago
  I wouldn't give much regarding the general public. If you have a small blog they're usually not your target audience. Accept that the days of "making a few bucks off of advertising" on hobby publishing are over, focus on writing about things you care about without it reeking of being written by ChatGPT and chances are people will come at some point. If small publishers don't change their behavior in radical ways, nothing will ever change.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    > nothing will ever change. That's probably what MySpace people thought. And Friendster. And Altavista. And ...
    - jasonvorhe 2y ago
      I don't get what you're trying to say. I'm not arguing in favor of doing nothing in an ever-changing market, which is what Myspace and Friendster did most of the time. I'm saying the old world of "have good content/SEO and you'll see some traction thanks to Google" is dying and that you can either adapt or drown in a flood of LLM-created SEO blackhat nonsense. Google does not care about you and they've been in the "too big to fail" corner for too long. If you want content made by humans to continue to exist and want to see some of them be able to make a buck off of it, support smaller search engines and creative people and their publications.
      - viraptor 2y ago
        I mean that services will come and go. Some will stay for longer than others, but even without a coordinated action, Google may go away. It's also losing to Perplexity and ChatGPT with many people. And many geeks are very vocal about their love for Kagi. (Including me) Things may change over time and may not be too big to fail.
wbl 2y ago
And how is the experience? Even with Bing I find I have to switch to Google to get useful results for my queries.
- senko 2y ago
  Kagi user here, I almost never need to !g. Used DDG a few years back and stopped after I had to fallback to Google for most qs.
- girvo 2y ago
  Google is so odd these days, its like there are two "streams" of results. One is the kind of useless slop that the article in question is rightfully complaining about, but other results are still useful and high quality. The second stream is what I seem to get when I'm forced to "!g" when I'm using DuckDuckGo, and I can't work out why theres this stratification, this separation. Years ago, it was very rare to get crap results from Google. Now its far more common.
- alpaca128 2y ago
  It took me about two weeks until I got consistently good results with DDG, it often just takes about one more search term because it doesn't try to (often incorrectly) guess the context based on search history like Google does. That was years ago, since then DDG has gotten better and Google a lot worse. I could understand your complaint if it was about image search, but I don't see how anyone can look at today's Google results and think they're still superior.
- viraptor 2y ago
  Kagi is simply better in every way I can think of and I've been a paying user for over a year now.
- justinclift 2y ago
  Haven't needed to use Google at all since using Kagi several months ago, whereas when using Duck Duck Go for a few years (prior to Kagi) I'd (very occasionally) need to.
lolinder 2y ago
Kagi is a viable choice for individual people, but it's not an answer for the concern of how to get traffic to visit your site and click on your affiliate links (which is what TFA is about). Kagi works well for users precisely because it's small enough that no one benefits from gaming its algorithms.
- rockskon 2y ago
  How is Kagi faring after Google's exclusivity deal with Reddit?
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Um, I don't know when that would have kicked in because I haven't noticed a difference. Reddit still shows up whenever it's relevant, and the Forums lens turns up even more Reddit if you're worried you're missing any on the initial search.
  - klooney 2y ago
    I think Kagi uses Google's APIs as a part of their mix of search results.
- Ferret7446 2y ago
  Why is it Google's job, who TFA isn't paying AFAIK, to get traffic to visit their site?
  - lolinder 2y ago
    I don't think it is, but recommending Kagi as a solution for their complaint misses their point.

viraptor 2y ago

I feel too that we're already past the point where they could fix things. They must be aware of issues and do the exact opposite of fixing them. It's a question how fast we can convince general public to move away, rather than when Google will improve.

jasonvorhe 2y ago
I wouldn't give much regarding the general public. If you have a small blog they're usually not your target audience. Accept that the days of "making a few bucks off of advertising" on hobby publishing are over, focus on writing about things you care about without it reeking of being written by ChatGPT and chances are people will come at some point. If small publishers don't change their behavior in radical ways, nothing will ever change.
- viraptor 2y ago
  > nothing will ever change. That's probably what MySpace people thought. And Friendster. And Altavista. And ...
  - jasonvorhe 2y ago
    I don't get what you're trying to say. I'm not arguing in favor of doing nothing in an ever-changing market, which is what Myspace and Friendster did most of the time. I'm saying the old world of "have good content/SEO and you'll see some traction thanks to Google" is dying and that you can either adapt or drown in a flood of LLM-created SEO blackhat nonsense. Google does not care about you and they've been in the "too big to fail" corner for too long. If you want content made by humans to continue to exist and want to see some of them be able to make a buck off of it, support smaller search engines and creative people and their publications.
    - viraptor 2y ago
      I mean that services will come and go. Some will stay for longer than others, but even without a coordinated action, Google may go away. It's also losing to Perplexity and ChatGPT with many people. And many geeks are very vocal about their love for Kagi. (Including me) Things may change over time and may not be too big to fail.

wbl 2y ago

And how is the experience? Even with Bing I find I have to switch to Google to get useful results for my queries.

senko 2y ago
Kagi user here, I almost never need to !g. Used DDG a few years back and stopped after I had to fallback to Google for most qs.
girvo 2y ago
Google is so odd these days, its like there are two "streams" of results. One is the kind of useless slop that the article in question is rightfully complaining about, but other results are still useful and high quality. The second stream is what I seem to get when I'm forced to "!g" when I'm using DuckDuckGo, and I can't work out why theres this stratification, this separation. Years ago, it was very rare to get crap results from Google. Now its far more common.
alpaca128 2y ago
It took me about two weeks until I got consistently good results with DDG, it often just takes about one more search term because it doesn't try to (often incorrectly) guess the context based on search history like Google does. That was years ago, since then DDG has gotten better and Google a lot worse. I could understand your complaint if it was about image search, but I don't see how anyone can look at today's Google results and think they're still superior.
viraptor 2y ago
Kagi is simply better in every way I can think of and I've been a paying user for over a year now.
justinclift 2y ago
Haven't needed to use Google at all since using Kagi several months ago, whereas when using Duck Duck Go for a few years (prior to Kagi) I'd (very occasionally) need to.

lolinder 2y ago

Kagi is a viable choice for individual people, but it's not an answer for the concern of how to get traffic to visit your site and click on your affiliate links (which is what TFA is about). Kagi works well for users precisely because it's small enough that no one benefits from gaming its algorithms.

rockskon 2y ago
How is Kagi faring after Google's exclusivity deal with Reddit?
- lolinder 2y ago
  Um, I don't know when that would have kicked in because I haven't noticed a difference. Reddit still shows up whenever it's relevant, and the Forums lens turns up even more Reddit if you're worried you're missing any on the initial search.
- klooney 2y ago
  I think Kagi uses Google's APIs as a part of their mix of search results.
Ferret7446 2y ago
Why is it Google's job, who TFA isn't paying AFAIK, to get traffic to visit their site?
- lolinder 2y ago
  I don't think it is, but recommending Kagi as a solution for their complaint misses their point.