3 ms·

The problem with anti cheat is that is doesn't even work. Play any game with anti cheat and you will still be flooded by hackers.

by account199494 2y ago

Hikikomori 2y ago
It does stop some classes of hacks, ups the effort considerably as you hack needs to be in kernel or with hardware. But its pretty much impossible to stop on x86/windows PCs.
- Muromec 2y ago
  If the hack has to be in kernel, it will be in kernel, so what's the point anyway.
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    Doing something to protect the integrity of the competitive game they have? Compared to others Riot is somewhat successful at least. There are plenty of games that do not require anti cheat but they aren't going to be the type that uses skill based matchmaking.
    - lomase 2y ago
      Dota and CS don't have kernel anticheat and they are as competitive as LoL or Valorant.
      - Hikikomori 2y ago
        And CS is completely overrun with cheaters. I don't play Dota like games but afaik they all have effective obfuscation, so ESP/wallhack like cheats aren't effective. But they have some auto aim cheats for abilities.
        lomase 2y ago
        CS and Dota are not overrun by cheaters, millions of people play those games every day with no problem.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        I don't know if CS2 is any different but while CSGO didn't have a cheater in every single game it was at least 1-2 in 10 in ranked games at global elite level from my experience playing it on and off for many years (beta 0.6 to a few years ago). At that level they usually only use ESP/wallhack and toggle aim assist to avoid getting banned through overwatch. Was very common for them to toggle halfway through a game or so to avoid losing or if they think someone else is cheating. Depends on your definition of overrun, I did use it a bit hyperbolically, but it seems you have no idea what you're talking about.
        lomase 2y ago
        You are the one who can't come up with a good argument and have to resort to personal attacks. I call that a falacy. I have been playing CS for +20 years.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        If CS is not overrun with cheaters why do we have faceit and other off ranked leagues with stronger anticheat? Personal "insult" as your comment was so wrong I didn't know where to begin.
        lomase 2y ago
        It seems you have no idea what you are talking about. (See I can do it too! I am attacking you, your knoledge, your inteligence, not your comment. And the "best" part is that sentence can be used to "win" any argument!) There is no point in this conversation, have a nice day.
    - Muromec 2y ago
      Everybody is "doing something". It's a question of what is something. Account-banning people after proven cheating is also something. I would imagine a competitive game with a skill-based match-making, especially a successful one can do that. Asking people to swear to not cheat in ToS is also something. Only installing the game on the proper trusted computing or doing server-side anticheat is something too. The issue is with the company deciding to disregard customers concerns about security and privacy to get this something for cheap from a third-party vendor.
- lomase 2y ago
  People pay for cheats. Companies are built arround cheat making. That now you need hardware to cheat is a bussines oportunity for some.
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    Yep, even up to hundreds of dollars a month.
elabajaba 2y ago
Counterpoint, play any game without anticheat and realize just how much worse it can be. (and before someone says it, custom servers with dedicated admins doesn't scale and tends to cause lots of petty drama)
serf 2y ago
all it really does in practice is produce a market for paid cheats. if it's a pain in the ass to stay ahead of the anti-cheats, then people with the skills to do so will expect (and receive) payment from those wishing to cheat.
Qwertious 2y ago
Working isn't binary. Anticheat definitely catches some cheaters. It definitely misses some cheaters too.p The worst case scenario is the TF2 catbot scenario, which anticheat seems to stop.
valval 2y ago
It does force me to learn more about computers to bypass it though.
__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
If we must pick just one problem I'd say it's that the techniques that we develop for anti cheat will later be used by authoritarian regimes to turn our devices into weapons against those of us foolish enough to dissent.
Thaxll 2y ago
Because you don´t understand anti-cheat in the first place, the goal is not to stop 100% of cheats, it's impossible.

The problem with anti cheat is that is doesn't even work. Play any game with anti cheat and you will still be flooded by hackers.

Hikikomori 2y ago

It does stop some classes of hacks, ups the effort considerably as you hack needs to be in kernel or with hardware. But its pretty much impossible to stop on x86/windows PCs.

Muromec 2y ago
If the hack has to be in kernel, it will be in kernel, so what's the point anyway.
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  Doing something to protect the integrity of the competitive game they have? Compared to others Riot is somewhat successful at least. There are plenty of games that do not require anti cheat but they aren't going to be the type that uses skill based matchmaking.
  - lomase 2y ago
    Dota and CS don't have kernel anticheat and they are as competitive as LoL or Valorant.
    - Hikikomori 2y ago
      And CS is completely overrun with cheaters. I don't play Dota like games but afaik they all have effective obfuscation, so ESP/wallhack like cheats aren't effective. But they have some auto aim cheats for abilities.
      - lomase 2y ago
        CS and Dota are not overrun by cheaters, millions of people play those games every day with no problem.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        I don't know if CS2 is any different but while CSGO didn't have a cheater in every single game it was at least 1-2 in 10 in ranked games at global elite level from my experience playing it on and off for many years (beta 0.6 to a few years ago). At that level they usually only use ESP/wallhack and toggle aim assist to avoid getting banned through overwatch. Was very common for them to toggle halfway through a game or so to avoid losing or if they think someone else is cheating. Depends on your definition of overrun, I did use it a bit hyperbolically, but it seems you have no idea what you're talking about.
        lomase 2y ago
        You are the one who can't come up with a good argument and have to resort to personal attacks. I call that a falacy. I have been playing CS for +20 years.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        If CS is not overrun with cheaters why do we have faceit and other off ranked leagues with stronger anticheat? Personal "insult" as your comment was so wrong I didn't know where to begin.
        lomase 2y ago
        It seems you have no idea what you are talking about. (See I can do it too! I am attacking you, your knoledge, your inteligence, not your comment. And the "best" part is that sentence can be used to "win" any argument!) There is no point in this conversation, have a nice day.
  - Muromec 2y ago
    Everybody is "doing something". It's a question of what is something. Account-banning people after proven cheating is also something. I would imagine a competitive game with a skill-based match-making, especially a successful one can do that. Asking people to swear to not cheat in ToS is also something. Only installing the game on the proper trusted computing or doing server-side anticheat is something too. The issue is with the company deciding to disregard customers concerns about security and privacy to get this something for cheap from a third-party vendor.
lomase 2y ago
People pay for cheats. Companies are built arround cheat making. That now you need hardware to cheat is a bussines oportunity for some.
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  Yep, even up to hundreds of dollars a month.

elabajaba 2y ago

Counterpoint, play any game without anticheat and realize just how much worse it can be. (and before someone says it, custom servers with dedicated admins doesn't scale and tends to cause lots of petty drama)

serf 2y ago

all it really does in practice is produce a market for paid cheats. if it's a pain in the ass to stay ahead of the anti-cheats, then people with the skills to do so will expect (and receive) payment from those wishing to cheat.

Qwertious 2y ago

Working isn't binary. Anticheat definitely catches some cheaters. It definitely misses some cheaters too.p The worst case scenario is the TF2 catbot scenario, which anticheat seems to stop.

valval 2y ago

It does force me to learn more about computers to bypass it though.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago

If we must pick just one problem I'd say it's that the techniques that we develop for anti cheat will later be used by authoritarian regimes to turn our devices into weapons against those of us foolish enough to dissent.

Thaxll 2y ago

Because you don´t understand anti-cheat in the first place, the goal is not to stop 100% of cheats, it's impossible.