4 ms·

If I wanted to deploy a trojan horse then the last place I would try to hide it is in an anti-cheat driver that will without any doubt be exhaustively analysed

If I wanted to deploy a trojan horse then the last place I would try to hide it is in an anti-cheat driver that will without any doubt be exhaustively analysed by people attempting to bypass it.

throwaway48476 2y ago
State sponsored actors only target a few people and they only send the backdoored version to their target list.
- thesuitonym 2y ago
  Ah yes, that’s why stuxnet wasn’t a big deal
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    What do you mean? They burned several high value 0days on a high value target. Why wouldn't China burn a high value backdoor on a target they deem valuable enough.
bravetraveler 2y ago
Gamers are great targets. They'll disable security for higher polling rates. Not discerning, gladly walk to the slaughterhouse.
- phito 2y ago
  There's a ton of gamers that like to figure out how the game itself works. There's a ton of them trying to figure out how anti cheats work, sometimes to cheat, but more often because they're curious, resourceful teenagers taking it as a challenge.
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    Oh, I know. That's how my career was started. I made invitational in CS: Source (CAL) and then sold cheats to pay for college. My first Real Job was through a teammate. Far more would have accepted a RAT and been deprived money than expressed genuine interest. Some did... not many. Most wanted the acclaim without the effort.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  But also there's parties there with a big interest in circumventing these securities, and have done so for decades. The new release of RDR for PC (shamefully asking $50 for a 14 year old game) was cracked within days, if not earlier, of its releae.
- vkou 2y ago
  Ah, yes, for most of us, getting our computer pwned is just like being murdered.
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    l o l Fine, they'll gladly eat shit
    - vkou 2y ago
      How much shit, and how does it compare to the risk profile of, say, not wearing a five points seat belt and motorcycling helmet while driving, or a bulletproof vest when going to school, or an N95 mask literally everywhere? Security theorists are always ready to tell us about the horrifying risks of installing kernel-level code from a vendor, but can they actually quantify the likelihood times damage those billions of installations have inflicted on Joe Random's life? And contrast them to other risks that we regularly take in the name of comfort and convenience?
      - bravetraveler 2y ago
        I'm not really that interested in chasing this, but a point I do want to make: it isn't just risk. If you want to participate in a lot of these multiplayer games that place cheating far too highly, you can't use a hypervisor. You must have gaming device and computing device. They cannot be the same. That's fine for most, but I consider it shit. VFIO makes it possible for a big computer to make a smaller gaming one. Ask me how I know. My greater point is I don't care if I get cheated out of a finals match. I can actually speak from experience. I prefer autonomy over my devices. I kind of want to eat poop with them. A little.
      - kelnos 2y ago
        Funny that you initially used "Joe Ransom" as your example name (before your edit), as that describes one of the possible situations our friend Joe can end up in: malware that encrypts all his data and asks for a ransom to get it back.

If I wanted to deploy a trojan horse then the last place I would try to hide it is in an anti-cheat driver that will without any doubt be exhaustively analysed by people attempting to bypass it.

throwaway48476 2y ago

State sponsored actors only target a few people and they only send the backdoored version to their target list.

thesuitonym 2y ago
Ah yes, that’s why stuxnet wasn’t a big deal
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  What do you mean? They burned several high value 0days on a high value target. Why wouldn't China burn a high value backdoor on a target they deem valuable enough.

bravetraveler 2y ago

Gamers are great targets. They'll disable security for higher polling rates. Not discerning, gladly walk to the slaughterhouse.

phito 2y ago
There's a ton of gamers that like to figure out how the game itself works. There's a ton of them trying to figure out how anti cheats work, sometimes to cheat, but more often because they're curious, resourceful teenagers taking it as a challenge.
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  Oh, I know. That's how my career was started. I made invitational in CS: Source (CAL) and then sold cheats to pay for college. My first Real Job was through a teammate. Far more would have accepted a RAT and been deprived money than expressed genuine interest. Some did... not many. Most wanted the acclaim without the effort.
Cthulhu_ 2y ago
But also there's parties there with a big interest in circumventing these securities, and have done so for decades. The new release of RDR for PC (shamefully asking $50 for a 14 year old game) was cracked within days, if not earlier, of its releae.
vkou 2y ago
Ah, yes, for most of us, getting our computer pwned is just like being murdered.
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  l o l Fine, they'll gladly eat shit
  - vkou 2y ago
    How much shit, and how does it compare to the risk profile of, say, not wearing a five points seat belt and motorcycling helmet while driving, or a bulletproof vest when going to school, or an N95 mask literally everywhere? Security theorists are always ready to tell us about the horrifying risks of installing kernel-level code from a vendor, but can they actually quantify the likelihood times damage those billions of installations have inflicted on Joe Random's life? And contrast them to other risks that we regularly take in the name of comfort and convenience?
    - bravetraveler 2y ago
      I'm not really that interested in chasing this, but a point I do want to make: it isn't just risk. If you want to participate in a lot of these multiplayer games that place cheating far too highly, you can't use a hypervisor. You must have gaming device and computing device. They cannot be the same. That's fine for most, but I consider it shit. VFIO makes it possible for a big computer to make a smaller gaming one. Ask me how I know. My greater point is I don't care if I get cheated out of a finals match. I can actually speak from experience. I prefer autonomy over my devices. I kind of want to eat poop with them. A little.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      Funny that you initially used "Joe Ransom" as your example name (before your edit), as that describes one of the possible situations our friend Joe can end up in: malware that encrypts all his data and asks for a ransom to get it back.