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Considering you need an Apple ID to log into the hardware, id argue Apple gatekeeps that ownership pretty tightly.

lukev 2y ago
This isn't true. edit: also, unless you are the digital equivalent of "off the grid", I would argue most people are going to need some sort of cloud-based identity anyway for messaging, file-sharing, etc. iCloud is far and away the most secure of the options available to most users, and the only one that uses full end-to-end encryption across all services.
- JadeNB 2y ago
  > edit: also, unless you are the digital equivalent of "off the grid", I would argue most people are going to need some sort of cloud-based identity anyway for messaging, file-sharing, etc. iCloud is far and away the most secure of the options available to most users, and the only one that uses full end-to-end encryption across all services. "You need some cloud-based identity, and this is the best one," even granting its premises, doesn't make being forced into this one a good thing. I'm an Apple user, but there are plenty of people I need to message and share files with who aren't in the Apple ecosystem. EDIT: As indicated in the reply (written before I added this edit), it sounds like I was ignoring the first part of the post, which pointed out that you aren't forced to use it. I agree that that is a sensible, and even natural and inevitable, reading. I actually wasn't ignoring that part, but I figured the only reason to include this edit was to say "that isn't true, but if it were true, then it would be OK." (Otherwise, what's the point? There's no more complete refutation needed of a false point than that it is false.) My argument is that, if it were true, then that wouldn't be OK, even if you need a cloud-based identity, and even if iCloud is the best one.
  - reaperducer 2y ago
    doesn't make being forced into this one a good thing But you're not forced. You completely ignored the other response in order to continue grinding an axe.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
ale42 2y ago
It's optional and very easy to skip. Not like the requirement for a MS account on Windows 11, which is also skippable but not by the average user.
- spiderice 2y ago
  I had to set up a Windows computer for the first time in a decade recently, and holy shit did they make it difficult to figure out how to do it without a Microsoft account.

This isn't true. edit: also, unless you are the digital equivalent of "off the grid", I would argue most people are going to need some sort of cloud-based identity anyway for messaging, file-sharing, etc. iCloud is far and away the most secure of the options available to most users, and the only one that uses full end-to-end encryption across all services.

JadeNB 2y ago
> edit: also, unless you are the digital equivalent of "off the grid", I would argue most people are going to need some sort of cloud-based identity anyway for messaging, file-sharing, etc. iCloud is far and away the most secure of the options available to most users, and the only one that uses full end-to-end encryption across all services. "You need some cloud-based identity, and this is the best one," even granting its premises, doesn't make being forced into this one a good thing. I'm an Apple user, but there are plenty of people I need to message and share files with who aren't in the Apple ecosystem. EDIT: As indicated in the reply (written before I added this edit), it sounds like I was ignoring the first part of the post, which pointed out that you aren't forced to use it. I agree that that is a sensible, and even natural and inevitable, reading. I actually wasn't ignoring that part, but I figured the only reason to include this edit was to say "that isn't true, but if it were true, then it would be OK." (Otherwise, what's the point? There's no more complete refutation needed of a false point than that it is false.) My argument is that, if it were true, then that wouldn't be OK, even if you need a cloud-based identity, and even if iCloud is the best one.
- reaperducer 2y ago
  doesn't make being forced into this one a good thing But you're not forced. You completely ignored the other response in order to continue grinding an axe.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

ale42 2y ago

It's optional and very easy to skip. Not like the requirement for a MS account on Windows 11, which is also skippable but not by the average user.

spiderice 2y ago
I had to set up a Windows computer for the first time in a decade recently, and holy shit did they make it difficult to figure out how to do it without a Microsoft account.