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The notion that a president can do this unilaterally without Congress is very strange. While I understand the laws and norms around executive authority are ofte

The notion that a president can do this unilaterally without Congress is very strange. While I understand the laws and norms around executive authority are often pushed against, you cannot legally defund an entire agency by executive order. (Or create one for that matter - I'm looking at you "Government Efficiency Administration" or whatever the heck they keep talking about. "Down with bureaucracy!" "Isn't that bureaucracy? A whole organization that focuses on waste?" "Yeah, but it's MINE. I only want down with YOUR bureaucracy."

jkaplowitz 2y ago
It’s true that an executive order cannot legally defund the CFPB, but since SCOTUS gave the President the right to remove the CFPB Director without cause, the President absolutely can cripple the agency by that type of executive action rather than by defunding it.
- mikeyouse 2y ago
  Even his chosen appointee was a big fan of $1 fines to companies who defrauded customers. One of great 'victories' of the small government types who've been in power is rendering many of the agencies they were responsible for to be completely ineffective. Why fight to protect the CFPB if they're a tool of the companies they're supposed to police? It's extremely important to keep these agencies independent and aggressive in seeking justice/recompensation.
  - jshier 2y ago
    Yeah, we saw exactly this across the executive branch the last time this guy was in power. Intentionally corrupt or feckless appointees who blocked or simply failed to approve any action on the part of the agencies they nominally ran. What does it matter if you don't completely dissolve the EPA if you just have your stooge redefine the EPA's job, or what pollution means? Of course, that's been the typical Republican approach for decades. Now they're full mask off for round two and will be working to completely dismantle the administrative state altogether.
- throwway120385 2y ago
  Yeah -- essentially all he has to do is enact the OMB rule that he enacted at the end of his first administration that classifies any employee of a federal agency that creates policy as a political appointee, and then he can literally fire the entire staff of any federal agency. Even just firing the senior staff would be enough to erase the power of the agency. So while it's true the CFPB would remain funded, it would also struggle to act effectively without senior staff to sign off on projects and pay salaries. This OMB rule is how Project 2025 is going to be executed, and it will go beyond chaos as they erase every federal agency including several that we all rely on within less than a year.
- Suppafly 2y ago
  Plus now you can basically cripple any agency by suing them since the supreme court's view is that agencies can't do anything that isn't explicitly dictated by congress now.
dylan604 2y ago
Why do you think the next conservative president would need to do it unilaterally without Congress? There's a good chance that the next conservative president would also have a conservative Congress. It's not outlandish at all
- sangnoir 2y ago
  They could also flex their newly found immunity when executing "official duties"
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
> you cannot legally defund an entire agency by executive order. Of course you can, if people accept it. This dynamic is massive in the last three decades and is only going to grow.
immibis 2y ago
You can do it, just not legally. Who distributes the funds, who decides who gets hired? It ultimately comes down to the president, who is immune from any consequences for illegal things he does in the course of his presidential duties, right?

jkaplowitz 2y ago

It’s true that an executive order cannot legally defund the CFPB, but since SCOTUS gave the President the right to remove the CFPB Director without cause, the President absolutely can cripple the agency by that type of executive action rather than by defunding it.

mikeyouse 2y ago
Even his chosen appointee was a big fan of $1 fines to companies who defrauded customers. One of great 'victories' of the small government types who've been in power is rendering many of the agencies they were responsible for to be completely ineffective. Why fight to protect the CFPB if they're a tool of the companies they're supposed to police? It's extremely important to keep these agencies independent and aggressive in seeking justice/recompensation.
- jshier 2y ago
  Yeah, we saw exactly this across the executive branch the last time this guy was in power. Intentionally corrupt or feckless appointees who blocked or simply failed to approve any action on the part of the agencies they nominally ran. What does it matter if you don't completely dissolve the EPA if you just have your stooge redefine the EPA's job, or what pollution means? Of course, that's been the typical Republican approach for decades. Now they're full mask off for round two and will be working to completely dismantle the administrative state altogether.
throwway120385 2y ago
Yeah -- essentially all he has to do is enact the OMB rule that he enacted at the end of his first administration that classifies any employee of a federal agency that creates policy as a political appointee, and then he can literally fire the entire staff of any federal agency. Even just firing the senior staff would be enough to erase the power of the agency. So while it's true the CFPB would remain funded, it would also struggle to act effectively without senior staff to sign off on projects and pay salaries. This OMB rule is how Project 2025 is going to be executed, and it will go beyond chaos as they erase every federal agency including several that we all rely on within less than a year.
Suppafly 2y ago
Plus now you can basically cripple any agency by suing them since the supreme court's view is that agencies can't do anything that isn't explicitly dictated by congress now.

dylan604 2y ago

Why do you think the next conservative president would need to do it unilaterally without Congress? There's a good chance that the next conservative president would also have a conservative Congress. It's not outlandish at all

sangnoir 2y ago
They could also flex their newly found immunity when executing "official duties"

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

> you cannot legally defund an entire agency by executive order. Of course you can, if people accept it. This dynamic is massive in the last three decades and is only going to grow.

immibis 2y ago

You can do it, just not legally. Who distributes the funds, who decides who gets hired? It ultimately comes down to the president, who is immune from any consequences for illegal things he does in the course of his presidential duties, right?