30 ms·

OT rant: I can't read these Google machine translations, language is not a collection of words, not even words + syntax, it's full of idioms and collocations an

by nsns 14y ago

OT rant: I can't read these Google machine translations, language is not a collection of words, not even words + syntax, it's full of idioms and collocations and hidden associations and stylistically motivated violations of accepted conventions. Instead of a translator who knows both languages (and cultures) well, the translation is being made by a code that actually knows neither. What I mean is: translating is very similar to writing or composing, it is technical only on a very superficial level (and I'm not implying codes can't theoretically match Human abilities, but that the current approach is quite limited).

rdl 14y ago
For business or other functional writing, I think Google translations are more than adequate most of the time, especially between fairly similar languages (like English and Swedish).
- hansbo 14y ago
  The problem with this text is that it is very emotional, and I think a lot of the impact gets lost in translation.
  - nsns 14y ago
    I agree with both of you, for technical language a technical approach to machine translation works.
  - andreasvc 14y ago
    It is an open question whether this is a fundamental problem with the approach, or simply a lack of relevant data for such translations. I suspect the former, but that's just a feeling. Perhaps with a sizeable corpus of literary translations, the system wouldn't do so badly.
unreal37 14y ago
It almost goes without saying. Near perfect machine translation is very very very difficult. In the text, the author talks about people by name, but then Google translates their name from Swedish to English so the sentence loses some clarity and accuracy. But I do find it somewhat readable - I get the gist of what he is saying. It does sound like, from his letter, the spokesman for TPB was convicted, jailed, and fined 100 million kroner just for being associated with TPB and not any crimes actually committed. They accuse him of running TPB load balancer which he claims he has never seen or logged in to.. He deserves clemency.
thmzlt 14y ago
Really? Is complaining about the translation the best comment you can make about this letter?
- mongol 14y ago
  Agreed. Not constructive, bordering to whining. The alternatives are, expecting someone to translate it, expecting Sunde to write it in English to begin with, or or for it not to be posted in the first place. It is incredible what native English speakers have to put up with...
  - molmalo 14y ago
    Maybe, thinking this as a non-English native speaker, most of the Internet is written in a foreign language, so we are used to adapt ourselves. We don't expect to have everything available in our language. Heck, I'm really used to google "einstein en.wikipedia" for example, as I assume that the english article will be much richer than in my own language. But when most of the world speaks your language, it looks like some people (I'm not generalizing here) are so used to expect english versions by default... that using tools like this feels bad. Maybe some day, as our tools get better and better, this can be a thing of the past. Until then, if I can understand most of the text, it's not that bad.
vibrunazo 14y ago
To really make a good translation you need an absurdly huge database of objects, it's meaning, properties, relationships and labels in each language. For example, in japanese, you must use different prepositions if the object in question is round or flat. How do you know if the object being talked is round or flat? You just need an absurdly huge database with every little property possible, for every object in existance. No one is anywhere near a good complete database yet, like we do in our memories. That's why machine translation currently suck. But Google is building such a database, which they call the "Knowledge Graph". Which, among many other things, will allow for much better translation.
632nm 14y ago
I find the translation surprisingly good and helpful, even though I know quite a lot of Swedish.

by nsns 14y ago

rdl 14y ago

For business or other functional writing, I think Google translations are more than adequate most of the time, especially between fairly similar languages (like English and Swedish).

hansbo 14y ago
The problem with this text is that it is very emotional, and I think a lot of the impact gets lost in translation.
- nsns 14y ago
  I agree with both of you, for technical language a technical approach to machine translation works.
- andreasvc 14y ago
  It is an open question whether this is a fundamental problem with the approach, or simply a lack of relevant data for such translations. I suspect the former, but that's just a feeling. Perhaps with a sizeable corpus of literary translations, the system wouldn't do so badly.

unreal37 14y ago

It almost goes without saying. Near perfect machine translation is very very very difficult. In the text, the author talks about people by name, but then Google translates their name from Swedish to English so the sentence loses some clarity and accuracy. But I do find it somewhat readable - I get the gist of what he is saying. It does sound like, from his letter, the spokesman for TPB was convicted, jailed, and fined 100 million kroner just for being associated with TPB and not any crimes actually committed. They accuse him of running TPB load balancer which he claims he has never seen or logged in to.. He deserves clemency.

thmzlt 14y ago

Really? Is complaining about the translation the best comment you can make about this letter?

mongol 14y ago
Agreed. Not constructive, bordering to whining. The alternatives are, expecting someone to translate it, expecting Sunde to write it in English to begin with, or or for it not to be posted in the first place. It is incredible what native English speakers have to put up with...
- molmalo 14y ago
  Maybe, thinking this as a non-English native speaker, most of the Internet is written in a foreign language, so we are used to adapt ourselves. We don't expect to have everything available in our language. Heck, I'm really used to google "einstein en.wikipedia" for example, as I assume that the english article will be much richer than in my own language. But when most of the world speaks your language, it looks like some people (I'm not generalizing here) are so used to expect english versions by default... that using tools like this feels bad. Maybe some day, as our tools get better and better, this can be a thing of the past. Until then, if I can understand most of the text, it's not that bad.

vibrunazo 14y ago

To really make a good translation you need an absurdly huge database of objects, it's meaning, properties, relationships and labels in each language. For example, in japanese, you must use different prepositions if the object in question is round or flat. How do you know if the object being talked is round or flat? You just need an absurdly huge database with every little property possible, for every object in existance. No one is anywhere near a good complete database yet, like we do in our memories. That's why machine translation currently suck. But Google is building such a database, which they call the "Knowledge Graph". Which, among many other things, will allow for much better translation.

632nm 14y ago

I find the translation surprisingly good and helpful, even though I know quite a lot of Swedish.