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> The European Commissioner responsible for the treaty, Karel de Gucht, has said that he will ignore any rejections and re-table it before the European Parliame

by kahawe 14y ago

> The European Commissioner responsible for the treaty, Karel de Gucht, has said that he will ignore any rejections and re-table it before the European Parliament until it passes Is it just me with limited political understanding or is making this claim publicly just an outrageous slap in the face of EU citizens and democracy? Could someone with better understanding shed some light on the processes at hand and how de Gucht could make that statement without instantly being oust from office?

bahadden 14y ago
That seems to be how the EU works. They did exactly that when Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty. Ignored the referendum results and basically told them to go back and vote again, until they came up with the right result. Also De Gucht was appointed to office, not voted in. There is no democratic way to oust him.
- eco 14y ago
  Appointed by whom?
  - rmc 14y ago
    EU Commissoners are appointed by member states. Roughly one commisoner per state. The European Parliament is elected by the people. The Council of Ministers is made up of the governments.
    - zspade 14y ago
      Can not be un-appointed, or are they like US Supreme court judges and serve for "life".
      - rmc 14y ago
        They can be removed from office, yes. The European Parliament can even impeech the lot of them.
- rmc 14y ago
  It was also the Irish Government that wanted to re-run the Treaty of Nice and Lisbon (they did it twice!). The Irish political mainstream was entirely behind Nice & Lisbon, and they were sorta suprised at the No vote. Hence they decided to re-run it. The EU has no problem dropping a member state out if that government wants to not take part. The UK didn't want the recent Fiscal Compact, and was going to veto it. So the rest of the EU (bar UK & Czech Rep.) just went ahead with a different treaty.
vacri 14y ago
It's democratic to silence a voice once heard? 'Sorry, we decided on that, it can never be tabled again'? Ignore changing morals, new information?
- ajuc 14y ago
  If there's no limit, you can do trivial DDOS to block ANY decision of EU by corrupting one unelected person, that can only be fired by firing the whole European Commision. That's begging for decision paralysis. The same problem liberum veto had ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberum_veto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberum_veto ). I think it's safe to assume when we voted againist sth once, we can ignore it for next 5 or 10 years.
- kahawe 14y ago
  "re-tabling it before the European Parliament until it passes" is completely different from "tabling it again after x years after new information surfaced". The former suggests pretty much immediate, repetitive, DoS style re-tabling and an intention to force something through despite that matter having been voted AGAINST - the later suggest good democratic processes.

by kahawe 14y ago

bahadden 14y ago

That seems to be how the EU works. They did exactly that when Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty. Ignored the referendum results and basically told them to go back and vote again, until they came up with the right result. Also De Gucht was appointed to office, not voted in. There is no democratic way to oust him.

eco 14y ago
Appointed by whom?
- rmc 14y ago
  EU Commissoners are appointed by member states. Roughly one commisoner per state. The European Parliament is elected by the people. The Council of Ministers is made up of the governments.
  - zspade 14y ago
    Can not be un-appointed, or are they like US Supreme court judges and serve for "life".
    - rmc 14y ago
      They can be removed from office, yes. The European Parliament can even impeech the lot of them.
rmc 14y ago
It was also the Irish Government that wanted to re-run the Treaty of Nice and Lisbon (they did it twice!). The Irish political mainstream was entirely behind Nice & Lisbon, and they were sorta suprised at the No vote. Hence they decided to re-run it. The EU has no problem dropping a member state out if that government wants to not take part. The UK didn't want the recent Fiscal Compact, and was going to veto it. So the rest of the EU (bar UK & Czech Rep.) just went ahead with a different treaty.

vacri 14y ago

It's democratic to silence a voice once heard? 'Sorry, we decided on that, it can never be tabled again'? Ignore changing morals, new information?

ajuc 14y ago
If there's no limit, you can do trivial DDOS to block ANY decision of EU by corrupting one unelected person, that can only be fired by firing the whole European Commision. That's begging for decision paralysis. The same problem liberum veto had ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberum_veto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberum_veto ). I think it's safe to assume when we voted againist sth once, we can ignore it for next 5 or 10 years.
kahawe 14y ago
"re-tabling it before the European Parliament until it passes" is completely different from "tabling it again after x years after new information surfaced". The former suggests pretty much immediate, repetitive, DoS style re-tabling and an intention to force something through despite that matter having been voted AGAINST - the later suggest good democratic processes.