5 ms·

I really dislike this argument of "I'd rather enjoy the sun in the evening than in the morning" ignoring all of the other problems it causes. Sunlight in the m

by bena 2y ago

I really dislike this argument of "I'd rather enjoy the sun in the evening than in the morning" ignoring all of the other problems it causes. Sunlight in the morning is useful. It's better for your sleep rhythms. It's safer for school children, etc. And to be completely fair, I don't see that many more people "enjoying the sunlight" during the weekend when they have the entire day to do so. Like, what is the sun going down at 6 really preventing you from doing that you couldn't do otherwise?

maratc 2y ago
> I really dislike this argument of "I'd rather enjoy the sun in the evening than in the morning" My argument is not "I'd rather enjoy the sun in the evening than in the morning", my argument is "From what I can observe, most people would prefer an hour of sunlight at the end of the day rather than in its beginning". This is not about what I think, it's about what most people think. > what is the sun going down at 6 really preventing you from doing Again, my observation is that most people, given a choice of A. having sunlight between 5am and 6am; or B. having sunlight between 6pm and 7pm, would prefer option B, simply for the reason that more are awake during that time.
- bena 2y ago
  Did you take a poll, or do you just have the feeling that that is the case? Not to mention, it's a bit weaselly. It offsets the burden of defending the position to "most people". And it doesn't even matter what "most people" think. "Most people" in this case, would be wrong. Even if it were "most people" and not "most people whose opinions you've happened to remember on the subject because they happen to align with yours". And it's going to get darker earlier in winter. That's just what it does. People are really just lamenting the lack of daylight hours in general. Because during the winter, few places have sunlight during 6pm and 7pm even if we kept DST year round. What they say they want is sunlight between 5pm and 6pm. And after the clocks roll back, it'll start getting dark soon after 5. And once again, I ask, for what? Having the sun rise just after 6am is better for everyone. School kids waiting for the bus are safer, kids walking to school way safer. Better driving when you're waking up. Everything is more in line with your circadian rhythms, etc.
  - samatman 2y ago
    > It offsets the burden of defending the position to "most people". Decisions where the only effect is to align something arbitrary with people's preferences can only be made through appeal to the majority. > And it doesn't even matter what "most people" think. Yes. Yes it does.
  - maratc 2y ago
    > And it's going to get darker earlier in winter. It's summer we're talking about when we talk about DST. There's no DST in the winter. > School kids waiting for the bus are safer, kids walking to school way safer. For several months in the summer, the schools are closed. Other months during DST, the schools start at 08h00 and the vast majority of the kids wake up about seven-ish, to leave their house at about 07h30. It is inconsequential for the kids whether the sun has risen at 06h30 or at 05h30 that day; when they wake up, there's light outside anyway. For the rest, let me give you an analogy. For several months this coming summer, I am going to give out an hour of free internet[0] each day. This won't interfere with the (paid) one that people are having otherwise. I'm not going to ask the question "would you prefer this hour to be between 05h30 and 06h30, or between 18h30 and 19h30?" but I am going to ask this question instead: What would the majority prefer, in your opinion? [0] - any useful utility can be substituted: free hour of water, free hour of electricity, etc.
    - bena 2y ago
      All the schools around where I live start between 7 and 8, which means kids are waiting for busses and walking between 6 and 7. Sunrise will be at 7:12 tomorrow. Sunrise would be around 8am at the latest if we kept DST year-round. There is less sun during the winter. That is how it works. Just in general. Also, whenever we try "year-round DST" we go back to "spring-forward"/"fall-back" because it sucks. Everyone says they want it until they get it. Whereas Arizona has gotten rid of DST and we don't hear anything about them. They got rid of it in the 60s. The nation should follow suit. And all of this is outside the fact that time zones in general are more political than practical. Which is another reason people think they want year-round DST. It's because they're probably in the wrong time zone.
alwayslikethis 2y ago
Yeah. DST really boils down to tricking people to wake up earlier. But you can get all that sunshine by waking up earlier yourself at 5am. No need to force an awkward schedule change on everyone.

by bena 2y ago

maratc 2y ago

> I really dislike this argument of "I'd rather enjoy the sun in the evening than in the morning" My argument is not "I'd rather enjoy the sun in the evening than in the morning", my argument is "From what I can observe, most people would prefer an hour of sunlight at the end of the day rather than in its beginning". This is not about what I think, it's about what most people think. > what is the sun going down at 6 really preventing you from doing Again, my observation is that most people, given a choice of A. having sunlight between 5am and 6am; or B. having sunlight between 6pm and 7pm, would prefer option B, simply for the reason that more are awake during that time.

bena 2y ago
Did you take a poll, or do you just have the feeling that that is the case? Not to mention, it's a bit weaselly. It offsets the burden of defending the position to "most people". And it doesn't even matter what "most people" think. "Most people" in this case, would be wrong. Even if it were "most people" and not "most people whose opinions you've happened to remember on the subject because they happen to align with yours". And it's going to get darker earlier in winter. That's just what it does. People are really just lamenting the lack of daylight hours in general. Because during the winter, few places have sunlight during 6pm and 7pm even if we kept DST year round. What they say they want is sunlight between 5pm and 6pm. And after the clocks roll back, it'll start getting dark soon after 5. And once again, I ask, for what? Having the sun rise just after 6am is better for everyone. School kids waiting for the bus are safer, kids walking to school way safer. Better driving when you're waking up. Everything is more in line with your circadian rhythms, etc.
- samatman 2y ago
  > It offsets the burden of defending the position to "most people". Decisions where the only effect is to align something arbitrary with people's preferences can only be made through appeal to the majority. > And it doesn't even matter what "most people" think. Yes. Yes it does.
- maratc 2y ago
  > And it's going to get darker earlier in winter. It's summer we're talking about when we talk about DST. There's no DST in the winter. > School kids waiting for the bus are safer, kids walking to school way safer. For several months in the summer, the schools are closed. Other months during DST, the schools start at 08h00 and the vast majority of the kids wake up about seven-ish, to leave their house at about 07h30. It is inconsequential for the kids whether the sun has risen at 06h30 or at 05h30 that day; when they wake up, there's light outside anyway. For the rest, let me give you an analogy. For several months this coming summer, I am going to give out an hour of free internet[0] each day. This won't interfere with the (paid) one that people are having otherwise. I'm not going to ask the question "would you prefer this hour to be between 05h30 and 06h30, or between 18h30 and 19h30?" but I am going to ask this question instead: What would the majority prefer, in your opinion? [0] - any useful utility can be substituted: free hour of water, free hour of electricity, etc.
  - bena 2y ago
    All the schools around where I live start between 7 and 8, which means kids are waiting for busses and walking between 6 and 7. Sunrise will be at 7:12 tomorrow. Sunrise would be around 8am at the latest if we kept DST year-round. There is less sun during the winter. That is how it works. Just in general. Also, whenever we try "year-round DST" we go back to "spring-forward"/"fall-back" because it sucks. Everyone says they want it until they get it. Whereas Arizona has gotten rid of DST and we don't hear anything about them. They got rid of it in the 60s. The nation should follow suit. And all of this is outside the fact that time zones in general are more political than practical. Which is another reason people think they want year-round DST. It's because they're probably in the wrong time zone.

alwayslikethis 2y ago

Yeah. DST really boils down to tricking people to wake up earlier. But you can get all that sunshine by waking up earlier yourself at 5am. No need to force an awkward schedule change on everyone.