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> But very few people buy cars of this size in Australia. Kia is about the only manufacturer left offering them, and it's very much a niche car despite being th

> But very few people buy cars of this size in Australia. Kia is about the only manufacturer left offering them, and it's very much a niche car despite being the cheapest on the market. This doesn't appear to be true in my experience. Accent, Corolla hatchback, Polo, Golf, Yaris - these are all cars you'll see every day in any Australian city. And whilst tradies buy utes (we don't call them "pickups"), I doubt at least in the consumer vehicle market they dominate. What is your source of information?

ZeroGravitas 2y ago
Also worth bearing in mind that EVs of an external size similar to an ICE car are often a class above in terms of internal space due to the packaging of the motors getting pushed out to the extremes of the vehicle.
StackRanker3000 2y ago
Aren’t utes and pickups different (albeit similar) types of vehicle? Edit: Since someone downvoted me, I went to find the first source I could. I’d be more than happy to be challenged constructively if this isn’t true: > Utes are classified as a tub-back commercial vehicle based off a passenger car variant. > For the Americans reading this, yes the Ford Ranchero and Chevy El Camino are therefore utes and not pick-up trucks. > With no passenger car variant diesel 4x4s like the Ford Ranger, VW Amarok and Toyota Hilux are classified as pick-ups. These vehicles use separate chassis/body construction, commonly use leaf-sprung solid-axle rear-ends and have higher towing capacities than most passenger car-based utes. https://mightycarmods.com/blogs/news/utes-trucks-and-pick-ups-what-is-the-difference https://mightycarmods.com/blogs/news/utes-trucks-and-pick-up...
- potato3732842 2y ago
  There's a pretty continuous spectrum. Trying to draw a hard line is stupid. The same is true for AWD/4wd and wagon/SUV/crossover. I didn't downvote you
- rgmerk 2y ago
  Without getting too far into the weeds the current top-selling vehicles (Ranger, Hilux, Amarok etc) in Australia, though usually referred to as "utes" here in Australia, are very similar in design (though smaller) to F150s, Silverados, RAM Trucks etc. Live rear axles, body on frame construction, four wheel drive, and actually more capable off road in a lot of situations than full size American pickups because they're smaller.
rgmerk 2y ago
Sorry, I was trying to make it easier for Americans to understand (there are a lot more Americans than Aussies here, obviously). As for the sales charts, the top four selling vehicles on the list are utes/pickups: https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2024.html https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-... The other thing to understand is that the Golf (which is a surprisingly large car these days), Corolla, Accent, Polo, and even the Yaris are a class or two bigger than the Seagull. They're roughly comparable to the BYD Dolphin in size.
- averageRoyalty 2y ago
  Fair enough. I can't find the data, but I'd be curious to see a list that splits off vehicles for work purposes compared to personal. There are various tax benefits to "100% work vehicles" that people claim. > They're roughly comparable to the BYD Dolphin in size. I haven't see this car in person, but it sounds like you're describing a kaicar compared to a subcompact? The Seagull is 3780 long by 1540 high. The Yaris (XP210) is 3940 long by 1500 high. The Golf (MK8) is 4284 long by 1456 high. The Accent (HC) is 4190 long by 1450 high. The Corolla (E10) is 4370 long by 1435 high. The Polo (MK6) is 4053 long by 1438 high. I did pick length and height as what I suspected to be reasonable for estimating "size" based on volume here. They're all within 50cm in length, and the Seagull is the tallest of them. So what defines the sizing class here?
  - rgmerk 2y ago
    Put it this way - a Toyota Camry, which these days is a big sedan with heaps of legroom in the back - is 4885mm in length. So the length difference between the Corolla and Camry is less than the difference between the Seagull and Camry. Kei cars are smaller again, with a maximum length of 3.4 metres.
tiew9Vii 2y ago
https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2023.html https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-... Top 10 selling car models in 2023 Ford Ranger – 63,356 Toyota Hilux – 61,111 Isuzu Ute D-Max – 31,202 Toyota RAV4 – 29,627 MG ZS – 29,258 Tesla Model Y – 28,769 Toyota Landcruiser – 26,449 Mitsubishi Outlander – 24,263 Mazda CX-5 – 23,083 Hyundai Tucson – 21,224 --- Top three are Ute's, 4th/5th place SUV's and the others are all large cars. You do see smaller cars like Corolla's (I own one) or Hyundai i30's as you say but the numbers above say they are not as popular as larger cars, and I agree from observations when you compare to somewhere like Europe.
- FLT8 2y ago
  There are a lot of weird and wonderful tax breaks in Australia likely helping to drive up the sales of utes*. I don't think it's necessarily that Aussies love driving them as much as Aussies dislike handing over more than they need to to the tax man.. [1]: https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/ute-tax-breaks-exemptions/ https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/ute-tax-breaks-exemptions...

ZeroGravitas 2y ago

Also worth bearing in mind that EVs of an external size similar to an ICE car are often a class above in terms of internal space due to the packaging of the motors getting pushed out to the extremes of the vehicle.

StackRanker3000 2y ago

Aren’t utes and pickups different (albeit similar) types of vehicle? Edit: Since someone downvoted me, I went to find the first source I could. I’d be more than happy to be challenged constructively if this isn’t true: > Utes are classified as a tub-back commercial vehicle based off a passenger car variant. > For the Americans reading this, yes the Ford Ranchero and Chevy El Camino are therefore utes and not pick-up trucks. > With no passenger car variant diesel 4x4s like the Ford Ranger, VW Amarok and Toyota Hilux are classified as pick-ups. These vehicles use separate chassis/body construction, commonly use leaf-sprung solid-axle rear-ends and have higher towing capacities than most passenger car-based utes. https://mightycarmods.com/blogs/news/utes-trucks-and-pick-ups-what-is-the-difference https://mightycarmods.com/blogs/news/utes-trucks-and-pick-up...

potato3732842 2y ago
There's a pretty continuous spectrum. Trying to draw a hard line is stupid. The same is true for AWD/4wd and wagon/SUV/crossover. I didn't downvote you
rgmerk 2y ago
Without getting too far into the weeds the current top-selling vehicles (Ranger, Hilux, Amarok etc) in Australia, though usually referred to as "utes" here in Australia, are very similar in design (though smaller) to F150s, Silverados, RAM Trucks etc. Live rear axles, body on frame construction, four wheel drive, and actually more capable off road in a lot of situations than full size American pickups because they're smaller.

rgmerk 2y ago

Sorry, I was trying to make it easier for Americans to understand (there are a lot more Americans than Aussies here, obviously). As for the sales charts, the top four selling vehicles on the list are utes/pickups: https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2024.html https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-... The other thing to understand is that the Golf (which is a surprisingly large car these days), Corolla, Accent, Polo, and even the Yaris are a class or two bigger than the Seagull. They're roughly comparable to the BYD Dolphin in size.

averageRoyalty 2y ago
Fair enough. I can't find the data, but I'd be curious to see a list that splits off vehicles for work purposes compared to personal. There are various tax benefits to "100% work vehicles" that people claim. > They're roughly comparable to the BYD Dolphin in size. I haven't see this car in person, but it sounds like you're describing a kaicar compared to a subcompact? The Seagull is 3780 long by 1540 high. The Yaris (XP210) is 3940 long by 1500 high. The Golf (MK8) is 4284 long by 1456 high. The Accent (HC) is 4190 long by 1450 high. The Corolla (E10) is 4370 long by 1435 high. The Polo (MK6) is 4053 long by 1438 high. I did pick length and height as what I suspected to be reasonable for estimating "size" based on volume here. They're all within 50cm in length, and the Seagull is the tallest of them. So what defines the sizing class here?
- rgmerk 2y ago
  Put it this way - a Toyota Camry, which these days is a big sedan with heaps of legroom in the back - is 4885mm in length. So the length difference between the Corolla and Camry is less than the difference between the Seagull and Camry. Kei cars are smaller again, with a maximum length of 3.4 metres.

tiew9Vii 2y ago

https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-new-car-sales-2023.html https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/australian-... Top 10 selling car models in 2023 Ford Ranger – 63,356 Toyota Hilux – 61,111 Isuzu Ute D-Max – 31,202 Toyota RAV4 – 29,627 MG ZS – 29,258 Tesla Model Y – 28,769 Toyota Landcruiser – 26,449 Mitsubishi Outlander – 24,263 Mazda CX-5 – 23,083 Hyundai Tucson – 21,224 --- Top three are Ute's, 4th/5th place SUV's and the others are all large cars. You do see smaller cars like Corolla's (I own one) or Hyundai i30's as you say but the numbers above say they are not as popular as larger cars, and I agree from observations when you compare to somewhere like Europe.

FLT8 2y ago
There are a lot of weird and wonderful tax breaks in Australia likely helping to drive up the sales of utes*. I don't think it's necessarily that Aussies love driving them as much as Aussies dislike handing over more than they need to to the tax man.. [1]: https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/ute-tax-breaks-exemptions/ https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/ute-tax-breaks-exemptions...