3 ms·

This probably comes down to the kinds of democracies. In the US we have a two party system where both candidates are the same in most cases. Do you want to vo

This probably comes down to the kinds of democracies. In the US we have a two party system where both candidates are the same in most cases. Do you want to vote pro ACTA or pro ACTA?

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Well, the UK (where I'm from) isn't much better. I'd call it 2.5 party system. Two large parties: Labour (centre-left), Conservative (centre-right), and the small Liberal Democrats (centre to centre-left), and the minority parties. But both Labour and the Conservatives keep moving closer to the centre. And quite a lot of issues you wouldn't have any choice on. For instance, same-sex marriage: Do you want same-sex marriage, same-sex marriage, or same-sex marriage?
- Aqwis 14y ago
  Should one of the parties also support slavery just so that you have a choice? Eventually an issue reaches a point where the vast majority of the population supports an issue (such as keeping slavery illegal), and when that happens it shouldn't be a surprise that no parties are against it. I hope and think this is what has happened to the issue of same-sex marriage in the UK.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    Oh of course. I'm in favour of same-sex marriage, personally, and I like the fact almost every important party supports it. I'm just using it as an example of something that there is very little real democratic choice on, however.
  - J3L2404 14y ago
    I think it will be quite a long time, if ever, that all parties will agree there should be no intellectual property.
  - vacri 14y ago
    Where 'vast majority' can equal 55%. Or not even then - sometimes an issue is not worth fighting over compared to others. Most people want to pay less tax, for example, but politicians of all stripes know that's not feasible, and stick with the minority desire to keep taxes up and focus on other things. Another thing that politicians are great at ignoring is the general public's disdain for their paypackets. On this issue, even the most brazen shouter of 'my mandate comes from the people' turns to 'this is a delicate issue that the public don't understand'...
- Silhouette 14y ago
  If you look at how many votes they pick up, there isn't such a wide gap between the top three parties, and several of the minorities take a substantial share too. However, our first-past-the-post system for general elections magnifies any differences. Usually this gives the largest party a disproportionate number of MPs and often an absolute majority. On the other hand, it potentially gives a lot of influence to even very small parties if there is a stalemate between the two largest parties that means neither can form a government alone. So perhaps it's not so much that we have a 2.5 party system, but more that votes count on a very non-linear scale. Incidentally, I would characterise both Labour since Blair and the Conservatives as being some way to the right on most social and economic issues. It's not yet clear how much Miliband, E. will bring things back to Labour's more traditional left-wing stance. The Liberal Democrats still seem to be quite left-wing in principle, even if they have to temper that to some extent while they are in a coalition government. I'm not sure we really have a mainstream moderate/centre party in English politics today, though obviously none of our major parties are as polarized/extreme as in some places.
praptak 14y ago
I believe that two party is the lesser of your problems. The huge dependence of Congress on lobbyist money is worse. The whole system is basically legalized corruption.

This probably comes down to the kinds of democracies. In the US we have a two party system where both candidates are the same in most cases. Do you want to vote pro ACTA or pro ACTA?

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

Well, the UK (where I'm from) isn't much better. I'd call it 2.5 party system. Two large parties: Labour (centre-left), Conservative (centre-right), and the small Liberal Democrats (centre to centre-left), and the minority parties. But both Labour and the Conservatives keep moving closer to the centre. And quite a lot of issues you wouldn't have any choice on. For instance, same-sex marriage: Do you want same-sex marriage, same-sex marriage, or same-sex marriage?

Aqwis 14y ago
Should one of the parties also support slavery just so that you have a choice? Eventually an issue reaches a point where the vast majority of the population supports an issue (such as keeping slavery illegal), and when that happens it shouldn't be a surprise that no parties are against it. I hope and think this is what has happened to the issue of same-sex marriage in the UK.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  Oh of course. I'm in favour of same-sex marriage, personally, and I like the fact almost every important party supports it. I'm just using it as an example of something that there is very little real democratic choice on, however.
- J3L2404 14y ago
  I think it will be quite a long time, if ever, that all parties will agree there should be no intellectual property.
- vacri 14y ago
  Where 'vast majority' can equal 55%. Or not even then - sometimes an issue is not worth fighting over compared to others. Most people want to pay less tax, for example, but politicians of all stripes know that's not feasible, and stick with the minority desire to keep taxes up and focus on other things. Another thing that politicians are great at ignoring is the general public's disdain for their paypackets. On this issue, even the most brazen shouter of 'my mandate comes from the people' turns to 'this is a delicate issue that the public don't understand'...
Silhouette 14y ago
If you look at how many votes they pick up, there isn't such a wide gap between the top three parties, and several of the minorities take a substantial share too. However, our first-past-the-post system for general elections magnifies any differences. Usually this gives the largest party a disproportionate number of MPs and often an absolute majority. On the other hand, it potentially gives a lot of influence to even very small parties if there is a stalemate between the two largest parties that means neither can form a government alone. So perhaps it's not so much that we have a 2.5 party system, but more that votes count on a very non-linear scale. Incidentally, I would characterise both Labour since Blair and the Conservatives as being some way to the right on most social and economic issues. It's not yet clear how much Miliband, E. will bring things back to Labour's more traditional left-wing stance. The Liberal Democrats still seem to be quite left-wing in principle, even if they have to temper that to some extent while they are in a coalition government. I'm not sure we really have a mainstream moderate/centre party in English politics today, though obviously none of our major parties are as polarized/extreme as in some places.

praptak 14y ago

I believe that two party is the lesser of your problems. The huge dependence of Congress on lobbyist money is worse. The whole system is basically legalized corruption.