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People don't understand the fundamental problem of fusion. It's a problem of energy loss. Of enormous energy losses. Roughly speaking energy can be mechanical,
by credit_guy 2y ago
People don't understand the fundamental problem of fusion. It's a problem of energy loss. Of enormous energy losses.
Roughly speaking energy can be mechanical, for particles or radiative, for photons. The first one is proportional to the temperature (the famous NRT) and the second is proportional to the fourth power of the temperature. The constant of proportionality is very small, and at regular temperatures we generally don't think of it that much. But at millions of degrees Kelvin, it starts to dominate all considerations.
The heat always moves form hot to cold. In the case of particles the heat flow is proportional to the difference in temperature, and in the case of radiation with the difference in temperature to the power 4. But heat also travels from particles to photons and vice-versa. It doesn't matter how.
The problem with fusion is now this. Suppose that you have a super-duper device, let's call it brompillator. It brings an amount of deuterium-tritium mix at the required temperature, let's say 10 million Kelvin. Now that volume of plasma is surrounded by cold stuff. You can imagine that you have some mirrors, or magnetic fields, or some magic stuff, but the cold hard stuff is that that plasma will want to radiate to the exterior and the flow of heat would be proportional to the surface area times the fourth power of the difference in temperature. Since for all practical purposes the outer temperature is zero, we are talking about the fourth power of 10 million Kelvin. Now that constant of porportionality is very small, it is called the Stefan-Boltzman constant and has a value of about 10^7 W m^-2 K^-4. Let's say the surface area is 1 square meter. So the heat loss happens at a rate of 10^-7 times (10^7)^4 = 10^21 Watts. That is 10^12 GigaWatts. One GW is the output of a decent sized nuclear power plant.
Of course, you can try to shield that plasma, but that shield has to be 99.99999....9% effective, where the number of 9s needs to be about 15 or so.
That is the immensity of the challenge that nobody is willing to tell you about.
How was this overcome in the case of the thermonuclear bomb? People imagine that once you have a fission bomb, you just put some deuterium-tritium mix next to it, and voila, you have a fusion bomb. No. The world's greatest minds have worked at this issue for about 5 years. The solution was something like this: if you first compress significantly the volume of fusion fuel, then the heat losses are much smaller (remember they are proportional to the area, and that's proportional to the square of the radius). They will still be tremendous, but you don't even aim to keep the reaction going for a long time. The duration of the fusion reaction in a thermonuclear bomb is still classified information, but public sources put it at the order of 1 microsecond. The heat losses are still tremendous, but for a short moment the heat gains from the fusion reaction are even greater, so ignition is achieved.
In the NIF experiment that achieved more than breakeven 2 years ago, the fusion lasted less than 10 nanoseconds [1].
If someone thinks the brompillator will achieve fusion and that will run for years, or even hours, or seconds, they don't understand the fundamental problem. Unfortunately, nobody is willing to ask hard questions about this, not even Sabine Hossenfelder.
[1] https://journals.aps.org/prl/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevLett.132.065102 https://journals.aps.org/prl/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevLett.132.065...
- twic 2y ago> People don't understand the fundamental problem of fusion. It's a problem of energy loss. Of enormous energy losses. I'm not sure that's even true, because if you manage to crack that, you still have the problem that your sustainable reaction is pumping out most of its energy in the form of very fast neutrons, which are (a) very hard to harvest energy from and (b) extremely bad for people and materials if you don't. You could have a self-sustaining reaction that you can't actually use!
- chasil 2y agoAneutronic fusion has been previously mentioned, specifically HB11. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion
- willis936 2y agoIt requires much higher temperatures, and thus suffers much higher Bremsstrahlung. You can sniff out BS quickly with anyone claiming a steady state aneutronic reactor. A working aneutronic design would necessarily be pulsed. Not that it can't be done, but you'd first need to pass through DT and DD performance metrics and then go another order of magnitude. No one's done that yet.
- pfdietz 2y agoAlso, the fusion reactors will inevitably have poor volumetric power density, due to limits on power/area through the first wall and the square-cube law. Engineering studies of stellarators found they tend to be larger and have worse economics than tokamaks.
- wbl 2y agoWe need a liquid with high heat capacity, large hydrogen content (for high neutron interaction rate) and a solid 300 year engineering history in heat engine applications. Better if it is nontoxic and environmentally friendly as well.
- 2y ago