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>I agree this is viable, but you have to understand that for heterosexual men they face a lot of day-to-day backlashes for this. Are you under some weird belie

>I agree this is viable, but you have to understand that for heterosexual men they face a lot of day-to-day backlashes for this. Are you under some weird belief that women who fought for progressive female empowerment did not face pushback from men AND women who wanted them to "stay in their place"? Getting pushback from men and women while trying to be progressive isn't some special thing that affects only men. It's the damn default to any progression. Women worked for decades to get passed it. They had to convince enough men to vote to give them the vote remember. They had to get laws passed so they could own a fucking credit card. Despite sitting politicians openly mocking women fighting for their rights, to this day, women were able to build spaces that helped women. Women were able to make support groups and businesses and all these things to try and be positive influences. Women are still not past the pushback for wanting to be seen as equals. >I said this in another comment, but modern heterosexual men are in a strange position where they have to perfect the art of performing masculinity in most situations, and then leaving hints of progressivism where other's find it most convenient. Absolutely not. If your friends/family/etc can't handle you not being a toxic shithead of a man, you should push back. Is that not part of being a man? IMO that's part of being a good human. A space that makes jokes and mockery of women is not a safe space for good men. So women fought adversity and built all this pro-women social infrastructure to be inter-supporting and improve the lives of women. What have men done with their systemic adversity? Well, young men have decided what they want to do is follow andrew tate, and ghouls like the "Fit and fresh" podcast on twitch, which spends hours every day espousing hatred towards all women. Young men are openly advocating for burning down society and replacing it with one where they are guaranteed sex. Young men are shooting up their schools because they couldn't get laid. Young men are rediscovering fucking phrenology to find a reason they aren't getting laid. Why are young men so absurdly hung up on sex? Why is not getting laid in high school a psyche breaking experience for men?

consteval 2y ago
> Getting pushback from men and women while trying to be progressive isn't some special thing that affects only men. It's the damn default to any progression I absolutely agree, but I think this is unique in the sense that progressive men often don't get support from progressive women. But progressiveness has been focused on progression for women, so often progression for men is viewed as strange, distasteful, un-man-like, etc. > Absolutely not. If your friends/family/etc can't handle you not being a toxic shithead of a man, you should push back. Is that not part of being a man? IMO that's part of being a good human. A space that makes jokes and mockery of women is not a safe space for good men. To be clear, I'm not talking about being a shithead here. These men I'm referring to are the good ones. The ones you'd see on liberal college campuses. They are progressive, but progressive for a man. They still perform masculinity nearly constantly, and drop only the most convenient and easy to digest hints of progressiveness when needed. They might, say, talk about how poorly show X has aged. They won't talk about their feelings, their depression, their desire for a fresh self expression, etc. > Well, young men have decided what they want to do is follow andrew tate, and ghouls like the "Fit and fresh" podcast on twitch, which spends hours every day espousing hatred towards all women. Once again, I agree, but these are not the men I'm referring to. > Why are young men so absurdly hung up on sex? Why is not getting laid in high school a psyche breaking experience for men? I can answer this one: it's because heterosexual men's self identity relies on sexual prowess. From a young age, boys are told they are sexual deviants. They can hardly exist around girls without overly-sexualized connotation from adults. Sexual behavior is not just excused, it's expected. A successful man is one who has the ability to get sex. Look at any media, and I really mean any. Who has the most power? Who has the most money? Who has the most confidence? Is it the man who has sex, or the virgin loser? This reinforces the message that without their sexuality, men are nothing. They will be lonely, poor, with no future. People sometimes miss this key part of sexual objectification. When we make women sex objects, we make men oglers and sex-doers. Sex is often perceived as something men DO to women - not something two people engage in together. It's both subtly, and blatantly, reinforced in movies, TV, and music. The most successful rappers brag about their women. The most successful men have trophies. The most loser men in movies are ugly and awkward. For these men, a loss of sex translates to a loss of life. They have no future. Of course it's all perception, and their perspective is incorrect. But we need to understand WHY they have this perception if we want to deconstruct it and remove it.

consteval 2y ago

> Getting pushback from men and women while trying to be progressive isn't some special thing that affects only men. It's the damn default to any progression I absolutely agree, but I think this is unique in the sense that progressive men often don't get support from progressive women. But progressiveness has been focused on progression for women, so often progression for men is viewed as strange, distasteful, un-man-like, etc. > Absolutely not. If your friends/family/etc can't handle you not being a toxic shithead of a man, you should push back. Is that not part of being a man? IMO that's part of being a good human. A space that makes jokes and mockery of women is not a safe space for good men. To be clear, I'm not talking about being a shithead here. These men I'm referring to are the good ones. The ones you'd see on liberal college campuses. They are progressive, but progressive for a man. They still perform masculinity nearly constantly, and drop only the most convenient and easy to digest hints of progressiveness when needed. They might, say, talk about how poorly show X has aged. They won't talk about their feelings, their depression, their desire for a fresh self expression, etc. > Well, young men have decided what they want to do is follow andrew tate, and ghouls like the "Fit and fresh" podcast on twitch, which spends hours every day espousing hatred towards all women. Once again, I agree, but these are not the men I'm referring to. > Why are young men so absurdly hung up on sex? Why is not getting laid in high school a psyche breaking experience for men? I can answer this one: it's because heterosexual men's self identity relies on sexual prowess. From a young age, boys are told they are sexual deviants. They can hardly exist around girls without overly-sexualized connotation from adults. Sexual behavior is not just excused, it's expected. A successful man is one who has the ability to get sex. Look at any media, and I really mean any. Who has the most power? Who has the most money? Who has the most confidence? Is it the man who has sex, or the virgin loser? This reinforces the message that without their sexuality, men are nothing. They will be lonely, poor, with no future. People sometimes miss this key part of sexual objectification. When we make women sex objects, we make men oglers and sex-doers. Sex is often perceived as something men DO to women - not something two people engage in together. It's both subtly, and blatantly, reinforced in movies, TV, and music. The most successful rappers brag about their women. The most successful men have trophies. The most loser men in movies are ugly and awkward. For these men, a loss of sex translates to a loss of life. They have no future. Of course it's all perception, and their perspective is incorrect. But we need to understand WHY they have this perception if we want to deconstruct it and remove it.