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Graham correctly flags the one thing about which there should be no disagreement in any democracy: losing the election and then trying to falsify the results af

by veidr 2y ago

Graham correctly flags the one thing about which there should be no disagreement in any democracy: losing the election and then trying to falsify the results after the fact, in order to remain in power, is completely disqualifying. We can disagree and quibble about all the rest of it: policy, character, blah blah blah. There are lots of other things I don't like about Trump, or Harris for that matter, but none of them are anywhere close to the magnitude of that.

deleted 2y ago
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veidr 2y ago
I've encountered several people in recent days and weeks who no longer quite remember how blatant Trump's efforts to falsify the election results actually were. I was born in 1974 - no US president (or plausible candidate for president) has ever before done something so manifestly disqualifying. I've never made a comment like the above about any of them. It's not like he was "demanding signature matching for votes to see if there was in fact any fraud". He threatened the Georgia state attorney general, and demanded he and his colleagues there find a way to falsify the election results. It's thankfully a simple matter of public record, so if you don't remember the details, you can go and listen to the recordings again[1]. [1]: These recording were published by most major news organizations, so this is not the only place to hear them, just the last place I remember doing so: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/22/opinion/donald-trump-ezra-klein-podcast.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/22/opinion/donald-trump-ezra...
rsynnott 2y ago
One thing I’m endlessly amazed by is that Trump’s crowd didn’t turn on him after that. Not so much because it was anti-democratic; I don’t think that they were that bothered. But because it was just such pathetic loser-ish behaviour. “I won, really, in my head!” Oh, get a grip, Donald.
- jfengel 2y ago
  His entire appeal rests on them believing that they are entitled to a better life than the one they have, and that the only reason they don't have it is because they are being oppressed by his political opponents. They don't see his behavior as pathetic. They see it as a noble attempt to fight powers so vast they dwarf even that of the President of the United States. You and I see that as absurd and can point out numerous contradictions. But they firmly believe that the election was, in fact, stolen. Which means that no matter what, one party or the other really is trying to steal the election. It has taken us a long time to get here, but we are in deep trouble and I have no idea how to get out of it. It is my belief that Trump's side is very wrong, and that a loss on Tuesday will force them to reconsider the policy of buying so heavily into a false version of reality. But we shall see.

by veidr 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

veidr 2y ago

I've encountered several people in recent days and weeks who no longer quite remember how blatant Trump's efforts to falsify the election results actually were. I was born in 1974 - no US president (or plausible candidate for president) has ever before done something so manifestly disqualifying. I've never made a comment like the above about any of them. It's not like he was "demanding signature matching for votes to see if there was in fact any fraud". He threatened the Georgia state attorney general, and demanded he and his colleagues there find a way to falsify the election results. It's thankfully a simple matter of public record, so if you don't remember the details, you can go and listen to the recordings again[1]. [1]: These recording were published by most major news organizations, so this is not the only place to hear them, just the last place I remember doing so: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/22/opinion/donald-trump-ezra-klein-podcast.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/22/opinion/donald-trump-ezra...

rsynnott 2y ago

One thing I’m endlessly amazed by is that Trump’s crowd didn’t turn on him after that. Not so much because it was anti-democratic; I don’t think that they were that bothered. But because it was just such pathetic loser-ish behaviour. “I won, really, in my head!” Oh, get a grip, Donald.

jfengel 2y ago
His entire appeal rests on them believing that they are entitled to a better life than the one they have, and that the only reason they don't have it is because they are being oppressed by his political opponents. They don't see his behavior as pathetic. They see it as a noble attempt to fight powers so vast they dwarf even that of the President of the United States. You and I see that as absurd and can point out numerous contradictions. But they firmly believe that the election was, in fact, stolen. Which means that no matter what, one party or the other really is trying to steal the election. It has taken us a long time to get here, but we are in deep trouble and I have no idea how to get out of it. It is my belief that Trump's side is very wrong, and that a loss on Tuesday will force them to reconsider the policy of buying so heavily into a false version of reality. But we shall see.