5 ms·

Do note only 256 GB of storage. Should be enough for most people, but at the same time can become very annoying once it gets full.

setgree 2y ago
We can reasonably expect 1) external storage to become faster and cheaper every year (subject to constraints around interface) 2) more and more digital assets to be cloud-native, e.g. photos stored exclusively on icloud and not on your computer So I'm less worried about storage than some. If Asahi Linux achieves Proton-like compatibility with games [0], then we're getting closer to the perfect general purpose game console. [0] https://asahilinux.org/2024/10/aaa-gaming-on-asahi-linux/ https://asahilinux.org/2024/10/aaa-gaming-on-asahi-linux/
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  With Thunderbolt 5, once external SSD enclosures supporting it exist, there should be zero performance penalty for external vs internal storage speed, finally. Then you can built a 1PB array, if you want.
  - canucker2016 2y ago
    M4-based mac mini's (256GB storage) have Thunderbolt 4. If you need/require Thunderbolt 5, you'll have to step up from $599 to $1399+ for the M4 Pro-based mac mini's.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Cloud storage is still painfully slow compared to local.
  - setgree 2y ago
    We can expect different storage solutions by product depending on how fast things need to be. It doesn’t need to be lightning quick to load a frame in a movie, for instance, which is why streaming dominates there.
- NBJack 2y ago
  Latency is a big problem for cloud gaming, and not likely to be solved any time soon.
  - seec 2y ago
    Yeah exactly my thoughts. I have been trying all kinds of services since 2010 and it always comes back to that. Even with very fast fiber, there is no realistic way to get the latency into desirable territory. It makes a large amount of games borderline unplayable and a whole lot extremely annoying. Basically, the only thing half-working are slow paced story games and slow strategy games (mostly turn based), which ironically require little ressource most of the time (so why pay for cloud service ?!). Like most things "cloud" conceptually it is seductive but in practice extremely compromised.
- drilbo 2y ago
  i think M4 support in Asahi is quite a ways out
- isametry 2y ago
  Indeed. Realistically if anything, one should consider the “physical world” hassles with permanent external storage arguably more than performance ones: • Risk of accidental unplugging. • Contacts may become wonky over time → see above. • The need to sacrifice a port (or the portion of one in the case of a dongle). • Enclosures tend to have annoying IO lights. • Takes a bit of space. All of these can be solved, especially when dealing with a desktop that stays in place. Paradoxically, there was never a better time to be modest with internal storage. Although I will say: > photos stored exclusively on icloud and not on your computer Over my dead body :) If there’s one thing I’ll always happily carve out SSD space for, it’s local copies of my photo library!
_mlbt 2y ago
It’s a desktop, so plugging in a USB external hard drive isn’t too painful or expensive.
- eastbound 2y ago
  Dockers can’t run off external drives.
  - kridsdale3 2y ago
    Why? Thunderbolt is PCI-E. There shouldn't be any difference between TB attached storage and adding disks to a desktop tower.
  - slashdave 2y ago
    That's an interesting claim. An external drive is just another block device. Is this something you experienced?
  - _mlbt 2y ago
    Since macOS is a UNIX system, can’t you just use a symlink to the external drive or is there something specific about Docker that prevents this?
    - Phrodo_00 2y ago
      Docker in macOS (at least the useful one) just runs in a Linux VM, and I don't see why you couldn't run a VM off an image on an external drive. Maybe the UI doesn't let you select that location?
  - echoangle 2y ago
    This doesn’t seem to be true, and I don’t even get what it would change if it were true. Developers aren’t the target demographic of the base version with low storage.
  - adib 2y ago
    Docker on Mac works fine on external drive. I moved the storage volume on a rotating USB 3 drive.
holografix 2y ago
This is a conscious tactic so X% of customers say yes to using iCloud storage
- semanticist 2y ago
  Apple offering expensive upgrades for storage and memory pre-dates the existence of iCloud storage by decades. It was entirely standard before MobileMe, or Apple offering any kind of "cloud" services. Apple just charge a lot of money for upgrades, even did when it was trivial to do them yourself, and they're not going to change once they made it impossible to do any kind of internal upgrade.
  - Wytwwww 2y ago
    You could upgrade pretty much all(?) Macs yourself back in those days, though

setgree 2y ago

We can reasonably expect 1) external storage to become faster and cheaper every year (subject to constraints around interface) 2) more and more digital assets to be cloud-native, e.g. photos stored exclusively on icloud and not on your computer So I'm less worried about storage than some. If Asahi Linux achieves Proton-like compatibility with games [0], then we're getting closer to the perfect general purpose game console. [0] https://asahilinux.org/2024/10/aaa-gaming-on-asahi-linux/ https://asahilinux.org/2024/10/aaa-gaming-on-asahi-linux/

kridsdale3 2y ago
With Thunderbolt 5, once external SSD enclosures supporting it exist, there should be zero performance penalty for external vs internal storage speed, finally. Then you can built a 1PB array, if you want.
- canucker2016 2y ago
  M4-based mac mini's (256GB storage) have Thunderbolt 4. If you need/require Thunderbolt 5, you'll have to step up from $599 to $1399+ for the M4 Pro-based mac mini's.
SoftTalker 2y ago
Cloud storage is still painfully slow compared to local.
- setgree 2y ago
  We can expect different storage solutions by product depending on how fast things need to be. It doesn’t need to be lightning quick to load a frame in a movie, for instance, which is why streaming dominates there.
NBJack 2y ago
Latency is a big problem for cloud gaming, and not likely to be solved any time soon.
- seec 2y ago
  Yeah exactly my thoughts. I have been trying all kinds of services since 2010 and it always comes back to that. Even with very fast fiber, there is no realistic way to get the latency into desirable territory. It makes a large amount of games borderline unplayable and a whole lot extremely annoying. Basically, the only thing half-working are slow paced story games and slow strategy games (mostly turn based), which ironically require little ressource most of the time (so why pay for cloud service ?!). Like most things "cloud" conceptually it is seductive but in practice extremely compromised.
drilbo 2y ago
i think M4 support in Asahi is quite a ways out
isametry 2y ago
Indeed. Realistically if anything, one should consider the “physical world” hassles with permanent external storage arguably more than performance ones: • Risk of accidental unplugging. • Contacts may become wonky over time → see above. • The need to sacrifice a port (or the portion of one in the case of a dongle). • Enclosures tend to have annoying IO lights. • Takes a bit of space. All of these can be solved, especially when dealing with a desktop that stays in place. Paradoxically, there was never a better time to be modest with internal storage. Although I will say: > photos stored exclusively on icloud and not on your computer Over my dead body :) If there’s one thing I’ll always happily carve out SSD space for, it’s local copies of my photo library!

_mlbt 2y ago

It’s a desktop, so plugging in a USB external hard drive isn’t too painful or expensive.

eastbound 2y ago
Dockers can’t run off external drives.
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  Why? Thunderbolt is PCI-E. There shouldn't be any difference between TB attached storage and adding disks to a desktop tower.
- slashdave 2y ago
  That's an interesting claim. An external drive is just another block device. Is this something you experienced?
- _mlbt 2y ago
  Since macOS is a UNIX system, can’t you just use a symlink to the external drive or is there something specific about Docker that prevents this?
  - Phrodo_00 2y ago
    Docker in macOS (at least the useful one) just runs in a Linux VM, and I don't see why you couldn't run a VM off an image on an external drive. Maybe the UI doesn't let you select that location?
- echoangle 2y ago
  This doesn’t seem to be true, and I don’t even get what it would change if it were true. Developers aren’t the target demographic of the base version with low storage.
- adib 2y ago
  Docker on Mac works fine on external drive. I moved the storage volume on a rotating USB 3 drive.

holografix 2y ago

This is a conscious tactic so X% of customers say yes to using iCloud storage

semanticist 2y ago
Apple offering expensive upgrades for storage and memory pre-dates the existence of iCloud storage by decades. It was entirely standard before MobileMe, or Apple offering any kind of "cloud" services. Apple just charge a lot of money for upgrades, even did when it was trivial to do them yourself, and they're not going to change once they made it impossible to do any kind of internal upgrade.
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  You could upgrade pretty much all(?) Macs yourself back in those days, though