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I think it's more relevant with Apple because they've removed all the competition for basically all upgrades to their devices by either soldering things to the

by rtkwe 2y ago

I think it's more relevant with Apple because they've removed all the competition for basically all upgrades to their devices by either soldering things to the board or bundling them into their SOC. When there's no alternative their prices become the only option.

jsheard 2y ago
The Mac Studio technically still has socketed SSDs, which presumably cuts costs by not having to manage a separate motherboard SKU for every SSD capacity, but they went out of their way to design a proprietary SSD module format rather than just using the standard...
- rtkwe 2y ago
  Kind of, they were socketed NAND cards and the controller lived on the mainboard, so as far as getting out of the problem of Apple entirely setting the prices for everything it's not relevant. As far as I'm finding no one managed to find a way to create a compatible card to create an avenue for DIY upgrades. I've found a few upgrades but they consist of buying an entire second Mac Studio to harvest the drive from.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Giles from Polysoft is manufacturing 3rd party mac studio nand cards. There is still a problem sourcing nand because apple doesn't let the owm sell to anyone but them.
    - rtkwe 2y ago
      I thought I had seen something about that but couldn't find the actual boards mentioned for sale. Sounds even worse though because it should be possible but Apple being Apple has ensured there's no source for Giles or other companies to perform repairs.
      - throwaway48476 2y ago
        There's an industry in China for desoldering and reusing apple bands. Unfortunately getting new oem nands is going to take legislation.
        rtkwe 2y ago
        Yes, though that relies on the product being fairly popular and for the chip to be stable for a while for it to be a useful source. Mac Studio NAND chips aren't going to be readily available from them unless they happen to be a shared part from a more popular device.
        throwaway48476 2y ago
        All macs use the same compatible nand chips.
        wtallis 2y ago
        Is there any compatibility between generations, eg. harvesting NAND from a M1 generation machine to upgrade a M3 (or now M4) generation machine?
        throwaway48476 2y ago
        As far as I'm aware, yes they're all compatible. Apples segmentation takes place in the nand firmware. The firmware contains the location in the storage configuration. And this may or may not be rewriteable. Iboffrc has done a video explaining how some of it works. It's all from reverse engineering though.
wtallis 2y ago
I think repairable or not, the pricing to upgrade to the max config just isn't something a price-sensitive consumer should take seriously. Beyond one or two upgrades, you might as well pretend it says "call for quote" and just not consider 4+ TB as a realistic option to get from the OEM, because those prices are trying to cause sticker shock. And that goes for any PC OEM—the price-gouged upgrades are so far beyond reasonable that it really doesn't matter whose prices are the most silly or by exactly how many hundreds of dollars. What does matter is whether aftermarket upgrades and repairs are possible.
- rtkwe 2y ago
  It matters that there are no after market options for Apple because it means the inflated OEM upgrade price is the ONLY price available for every given upgrade. It matters less with Dell/Asus/Lenovo etc. because that's not the only price available. The top of the line is also not where Apple is gouging the worst. It's in the middle tiers that are actually relevant to many more people. Most don't have a need for 4+ TB main drives but 1-2 TB is a size that's pretty easy to justify for a lot of people and Apple's price is the only option for them and they're absolutely lining their pockets with cash at the expense of anyone not going for the bargain bin basic tier that can't hold 2 modern games.
  - wtallis 2y ago
    By all means, complain about the cost to get a 1TB config, and put that price in proper context. But it still doesn't make much sense to focus on the $1200 upgrades, or any of the other upgrades whose price rounds up to "lol, no".
    - rtkwe 2y ago
      The gouging is bad at all levels as well as the design effects on repairability and the issues with obsolescence. If you'll look way back though I acknowledged the $1200 is at least vaguely in line with the top of the line Sabrent 8tb NVMe of the same size.

by rtkwe 2y ago

jsheard 2y ago

The Mac Studio technically still has socketed SSDs, which presumably cuts costs by not having to manage a separate motherboard SKU for every SSD capacity, but they went out of their way to design a proprietary SSD module format rather than just using the standard...

rtkwe 2y ago
Kind of, they were socketed NAND cards and the controller lived on the mainboard, so as far as getting out of the problem of Apple entirely setting the prices for everything it's not relevant. As far as I'm finding no one managed to find a way to create a compatible card to create an avenue for DIY upgrades. I've found a few upgrades but they consist of buying an entire second Mac Studio to harvest the drive from.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Giles from Polysoft is manufacturing 3rd party mac studio nand cards. There is still a problem sourcing nand because apple doesn't let the owm sell to anyone but them.
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    I thought I had seen something about that but couldn't find the actual boards mentioned for sale. Sounds even worse though because it should be possible but Apple being Apple has ensured there's no source for Giles or other companies to perform repairs.
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      There's an industry in China for desoldering and reusing apple bands. Unfortunately getting new oem nands is going to take legislation.
      - rtkwe 2y ago
        Yes, though that relies on the product being fairly popular and for the chip to be stable for a while for it to be a useful source. Mac Studio NAND chips aren't going to be readily available from them unless they happen to be a shared part from a more popular device.
        throwaway48476 2y ago
        All macs use the same compatible nand chips.
        wtallis 2y ago
        Is there any compatibility between generations, eg. harvesting NAND from a M1 generation machine to upgrade a M3 (or now M4) generation machine?
        throwaway48476 2y ago
        As far as I'm aware, yes they're all compatible. Apples segmentation takes place in the nand firmware. The firmware contains the location in the storage configuration. And this may or may not be rewriteable. Iboffrc has done a video explaining how some of it works. It's all from reverse engineering though.

wtallis 2y ago

I think repairable or not, the pricing to upgrade to the max config just isn't something a price-sensitive consumer should take seriously. Beyond one or two upgrades, you might as well pretend it says "call for quote" and just not consider 4+ TB as a realistic option to get from the OEM, because those prices are trying to cause sticker shock. And that goes for any PC OEM—the price-gouged upgrades are so far beyond reasonable that it really doesn't matter whose prices are the most silly or by exactly how many hundreds of dollars. What does matter is whether aftermarket upgrades and repairs are possible.

rtkwe 2y ago
It matters that there are no after market options for Apple because it means the inflated OEM upgrade price is the ONLY price available for every given upgrade. It matters less with Dell/Asus/Lenovo etc. because that's not the only price available. The top of the line is also not where Apple is gouging the worst. It's in the middle tiers that are actually relevant to many more people. Most don't have a need for 4+ TB main drives but 1-2 TB is a size that's pretty easy to justify for a lot of people and Apple's price is the only option for them and they're absolutely lining their pockets with cash at the expense of anyone not going for the bargain bin basic tier that can't hold 2 modern games.
- wtallis 2y ago
  By all means, complain about the cost to get a 1TB config, and put that price in proper context. But it still doesn't make much sense to focus on the $1200 upgrades, or any of the other upgrades whose price rounds up to "lol, no".
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    The gouging is bad at all levels as well as the design effects on repairability and the issues with obsolescence. If you'll look way back though I acknowledged the $1200 is at least vaguely in line with the top of the line Sabrent 8tb NVMe of the same size.