7 ms·

Hacker News really doesn't like PHP. There's a whole lot of blind prejudice in this thread Arguments against PHP are as futile as arguments in support of PHP.

Hacker News really doesn't like PHP. There's a whole lot of blind prejudice in this thread Arguments against PHP are as futile as arguments in support of PHP. It's a programming language. The only thing that matters is the person using it. I'm sure Ruby, Node and Go are super duper awesome in a lot of academic ways, but unless we're talking about awesome things that have been made with them, it's just blah blah blah boring opinions no one should care about.

hobin 14y ago
"The only thing that matters is the person using it." Well, sure, I guess if you're really strange, you can be as efficient with Brainfuck as you can be with Python.
rplnt 14y ago
I don't think not liking language so broken as php is a blind prejudice. That language is garbage. His creator said so many times. You don't have to care about that, but don't act like it's not true.
- revdinosaur 14y ago
  It would be easier to "act like it's ... true" if that statement weren't so damn objectivist. It's a non-ideal language that runs most of the web. There's an incredible nuance to that truth that makes it difficult to say that it's "garbage" (useless? no. unworthy of your time, maybe. I don't know what that means) I just don't get how people have time to be such puritans about things that don't immediately pertain to them and need so badly to make a binary judgement. Disclaimer: never touch the stuff myself.
scotty79 14y ago
> Hacker News really doesn't like PHP. But Y? function Y($F) { $func = function ($f) { return $f($f); }; return $func(function ($f) use($F) { return $F(function ($x) use($f) { $ff = $f($f); return $ff($x); }); }); }
- debacle 14y ago
  You can write that code in almost any language and it will look bad and be hard to mentally parse.
  - scotty79 14y ago
    But that's beloved ycombinator! Non-godlike developer can't mentally parse this unless he reads this: http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/ http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/
  - frewsxcv 14y ago
    That might be true, but it's a lot easier to do in PHP than Python for example
    - debacle 14y ago
      I looked at rosetta code - they both look pretty similar in clarity. Compare to JavaScript or R, which are much more legible.
- jasonlotito 14y ago
  Honestly, and with complete sincerity, that just means you're a bad programmer. It has nothing to do with the language. And trying to correlate the two is makes you look even worse.
  - astrange 14y ago
    Did you mean to reply to a different comment?
    - jasonlotito 14y ago
      No. Why do you think the parents sample code is an example of quality code?
      - 14y ago
papsosouid 14y ago
>Hacker News really doesn't like PHP. There's a whole lot of blind prejudice in this thread PHP apologists make this claim every time PHP is mentioned here. And yet the threads are always full of these apologists, claiming PHP is awesome because facebook uses it, or because every cheap shitty webhost has it installed. Never making any actual argument that PHP is good, or rebuttal to the numerous arguments that PHP is bad. I'm sorry, but for a site that is supposed to have an intelligent, technically literate userbase, HN has far too many head in the sand PHP supporters, not too many PHP haters.
- lonnyk 14y ago
  > And yet the threads are always full of these apologists, claiming PHP is awesome because facebook uses it, or because every cheap shitty webhost has it installed. Never making any actual argument that PHP is good That is the argument. PHP is good b/c it allows a lot of people to be productive. C is probably a better written language then Ruby, but it doesn't matter b/c if you're doing web development you're not going to be as productive in C as you will be in Ruby.
  - papsosouid 14y ago
    >That is the argument. PHP is good b/c it allows a lot of people to be productive That isn't an argument, because every other scripting language also allows a lot of people to be productive. If A is equal to B in one respect, and far worse in dozens of other respects, pointing out the one way it is equal doesn't make an argument that A is good.
    - lonnyk 14y ago
      > If A is equal to B in one respect, and far worse in dozens of other respects, pointing out the one way it is equal doesn't make an argument that A is good. I didn't state it was better then any other language. I simply made a case that it is a good language.
      - papsosouid 14y ago
sold 14y ago
> It's a programming language. The only thing that matters is the person using it. No! Please see "Beating the Averages" [http://paulgraham.com/avg.html http://paulgraham.com/avg.html] (skip to "The Blub paradox" for tldr) It it true that a lot of discussion here is pointless evangelization and bashing, but the argument "programming language does not matter, only the programmer" is even worse. If that was true, there would be no difference between a C# programmer and a Visual Basic programmer. Languages would stay the same with no initiative to change. Yet they do change and evolve. Programming languages vary in power, even though they are Turing-complete.
freshhawk 14y ago
> I'm sure Ruby, Node and Go are super duper awesome in a lot of academic ways I find Hacker News loves PHP in comparison to most places developers hang out. Mostly because of the prevalence of the kind of anti-intellectualism on display in your comment. Some of us have used PHP for years AND many other languages and have a basis for comparison.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

hobin 14y ago

"The only thing that matters is the person using it." Well, sure, I guess if you're really strange, you can be as efficient with Brainfuck as you can be with Python.

rplnt 14y ago

I don't think not liking language so broken as php is a blind prejudice. That language is garbage. His creator said so many times. You don't have to care about that, but don't act like it's not true.

revdinosaur 14y ago
It would be easier to "act like it's ... true" if that statement weren't so damn objectivist. It's a non-ideal language that runs most of the web. There's an incredible nuance to that truth that makes it difficult to say that it's "garbage" (useless? no. unworthy of your time, maybe. I don't know what that means) I just don't get how people have time to be such puritans about things that don't immediately pertain to them and need so badly to make a binary judgement. Disclaimer: never touch the stuff myself.

scotty79 14y ago

> Hacker News really doesn't like PHP. But Y? function Y($F) { $func = function ($f) { return $f($f); }; return $func(function ($f) use($F) { return $F(function ($x) use($f) { $ff = $f($f); return $ff($x); }); }); }

debacle 14y ago
You can write that code in almost any language and it will look bad and be hard to mentally parse.
- scotty79 14y ago
  But that's beloved ycombinator! Non-godlike developer can't mentally parse this unless he reads this: http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/ http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/
- frewsxcv 14y ago
  That might be true, but it's a lot easier to do in PHP than Python for example
  - debacle 14y ago
    I looked at rosetta code - they both look pretty similar in clarity. Compare to JavaScript or R, which are much more legible.
jasonlotito 14y ago
Honestly, and with complete sincerity, that just means you're a bad programmer. It has nothing to do with the language. And trying to correlate the two is makes you look even worse.
- astrange 14y ago
  Did you mean to reply to a different comment?
  - jasonlotito 14y ago
    No. Why do you think the parents sample code is an example of quality code?
    - 14y ago

papsosouid 14y ago

>Hacker News really doesn't like PHP. There's a whole lot of blind prejudice in this thread PHP apologists make this claim every time PHP is mentioned here. And yet the threads are always full of these apologists, claiming PHP is awesome because facebook uses it, or because every cheap shitty webhost has it installed. Never making any actual argument that PHP is good, or rebuttal to the numerous arguments that PHP is bad. I'm sorry, but for a site that is supposed to have an intelligent, technically literate userbase, HN has far too many head in the sand PHP supporters, not too many PHP haters.

lonnyk 14y ago
> And yet the threads are always full of these apologists, claiming PHP is awesome because facebook uses it, or because every cheap shitty webhost has it installed. Never making any actual argument that PHP is good That is the argument. PHP is good b/c it allows a lot of people to be productive. C is probably a better written language then Ruby, but it doesn't matter b/c if you're doing web development you're not going to be as productive in C as you will be in Ruby.
- papsosouid 14y ago
  >That is the argument. PHP is good b/c it allows a lot of people to be productive That isn't an argument, because every other scripting language also allows a lot of people to be productive. If A is equal to B in one respect, and far worse in dozens of other respects, pointing out the one way it is equal doesn't make an argument that A is good.
  - lonnyk 14y ago
    > If A is equal to B in one respect, and far worse in dozens of other respects, pointing out the one way it is equal doesn't make an argument that A is good. I didn't state it was better then any other language. I simply made a case that it is a good language.
    - papsosouid 14y ago

sold 14y ago

> It's a programming language. The only thing that matters is the person using it. No! Please see "Beating the Averages" [http://paulgraham.com/avg.html http://paulgraham.com/avg.html] (skip to "The Blub paradox" for tldr) It it true that a lot of discussion here is pointless evangelization and bashing, but the argument "programming language does not matter, only the programmer" is even worse. If that was true, there would be no difference between a C# programmer and a Visual Basic programmer. Languages would stay the same with no initiative to change. Yet they do change and evolve. Programming languages vary in power, even though they are Turing-complete.

freshhawk 14y ago

> I'm sure Ruby, Node and Go are super duper awesome in a lot of academic ways I find Hacker News loves PHP in comparison to most places developers hang out. Mostly because of the prevalence of the kind of anti-intellectualism on display in your comment. Some of us have used PHP for years AND many other languages and have a basis for comparison.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]