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I loved Richard Scarry as a child—still do!—and I'm convinced his books really helped build up my vocabulary as I learned English in first grade. A detail I on

I loved Richard Scarry as a child—still do!—and I'm convinced his books really helped build up my vocabulary as I learned English in first grade. A detail I only mentally noted as an adult: the butchers in his books are always pigs themselves. A pig selling ham, sausages and, presumably, cuts of pork is a bit morbid (and also hilarious in a black humor sort of way), but it fits in with the world so much that I didn't even think twice about it as a kid. It just slid past me. I still remember one of the books I had as a child—can't recall the title exactly—that had a bunch of urban scenes with various objects labeled. What really stood out were the little details and funny little stories going on. The stories and the humor got me to pay attention and actually care about the objects (and their labels!) far more than any generic vocabulary book for kids. What I love about Richard Scarry is that he is never patronizing or condescending. Too many authors of children's books either try to write down to kids, try to write what they think kids ought to read, or both. But kids aren't idiots and they can tell! Well, I can't speak for everyone, but at least as a kid myself I found a lot of children's works either patronizing or unpleasant—works that were trying too hard to be childlike or, especially, works that were transparent morality plays. Scarry's work is nothing like this at all. It's oriented for and accessible to kids, but it manages to be simple and silly in a genuine way. The art and stories are actually cute and funny rather than caricatures of what an adult thinks a child would find cute and funny. You can tell Scarry was making something he would enjoy himself. That's why I loved his books when I was five and why I still love his books now. It's hard to find other children's books like that. I collect illustrated books and the majority I see in stores are awful. The most successful exception I've seen are books by Joe Klassen (of I Want My Hat fame) along with his common collaborator Mac Barnett. Their books are legitimately funny and visually attractive to adults, they're willing to write stories that aren't entirely saccharine, and children absolutely love them. I've seen that first-hand.

tivert 2y ago
> A detail I only mentally noted as an adult: the butchers in his books are always pigs themselves. A pig selling ham, sausages and, presumably, cuts of pork is a bit morbid (and also hilarious in a black humor sort of way), but it fits in with the world so much that I didn't even think twice about it as a kid. It just slid past me. Also: every scarecrow has a crow sitting on it.
- tikhonj 2y ago
  I hadn't noticed that. It's an absolutely hilarious little touch.
ninalanyon 2y ago
> I didn't even think twice about it as a kid. It just slid past me. I think that the best children's books always have something in them that will be appreciated later. They can be read and re-read as one grows older. Probably the greatest prose exponent was Lewis Carroll.
- queuebert 2y ago
  I think also they put something in for the parents so reading the same book over and over and over to your kids isn't as boring.
- shaklee3 2y ago
  Like the giving tree. That one hits deep
kridsdale3 2y ago
> I still remember one of the books I had as a child—can't recall the title exactly—that had a bunch of urban scenes with various objects labeled. I have this in my son's room. It's called "Busy Busy Town".
cduzz 2y ago
My wife was quite sad when I suggested to her that "this little piggie went to market" was in fact the farmer taking the pig to the market to be butchered, and that "this little piggie went wee wee wee all the way home" was probably a piglet taken from its family to replace the "now big enough to sell" pig....
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  If you wish to enjoy sausage, it's probably best not to enquire into how swine are raised and kept in our time.
  - cduzz 2y ago
    I think she'd always imagined a pig with a hat and overalls walking down the street to buy the sunday newspaper...
  - lnsru 2y ago
    My colleague was transported to mental health institution with an escort of police straight from the office. And was kept there for 2 weeks. People are treated like trash by other people. I don’t want to think about industrial animal farming. It’s probably the worst of the worst.
    - krisoft 2y ago
      > My colleague was transported to mental health institution with an escort of police straight from the office. And was kept there for 2 weeks. People are treated like trash by other people. How does one thought here follow from the other? I’m not saying that there aren’t egregious atrocities commited in the name of mental health treatment, but it seems that you don’t even attempt to argue that that happened in the case. With some people in some situations the kindest and most humane thing imaginable is to transport them to a mental health institution and keep them there for 2 weeks. The fact that we have that as an option demonstrates that humans care about each other and are not treating each other as trash. The baseline, without any systems in place, is that we leave people suffering a mental episode wreak havoc on their own life and the lives of those around them. Now that would be treating people like trash. As i say it is perfectly possible that your colleague suffered an injustice, or were more harshly treated than would have been possible or reasonable. But then say that, don’t just insinuate it.
082349872349872 2y ago
See https://kieranhealy.org/files/misc/levimartin.pdf https://kieranhealy.org/files/misc/levimartin.pdf "What do animals do all day?": The division of labor, class bodies, and totemic thinking in the popular imagination (2000) > Keywords: Animals; Totemism; Class body; Busytown; Symbolic domination; Division of labor (36pp, not entirely serious, about which animals do what in Busytown; contrasted with Babar, etc.)
- com 2y ago
  Mind boggling. Social programming runs deep.
WhyCause 2y ago
> The most successful exception I've seen are books by Joe Klassen (of I Want My Hat fame)... If you haven't read it The Dark[1] (his collaboration with Lemony Snicket) is also great; my kids absolutely love the voices I do for the animals in I Want My Hat Back and for the titular Dark. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Bccb-Ribbon-Picture-Awards/dp/0316187488 https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Bccb-Ribbon-Picture-Awards/dp/03...
WalterBright 2y ago
The Pooh books are like that. There's a bit of wry adult humor sprinkled in with it, too. Other cartoons "for kids" with an adult track in them: SpongeBob (the first couple seasons) Rocky and Bullwinkle
- irrational 2y ago
  Calvin and Hobbes
  - wodenokoto 2y ago
    I don’t think that was ever aimed at children
    - irrational 2y ago
      I read it as a child in our daily newspaper. My children now read it in the books we have. I don't know who the target audience was for newspaper comic pages, but I don't think it was restricted to adults.
      - skeeter2020 2y ago
        The funny pages used to go for the dynamic discussed here: some of the strips kids loved, some they couldn't understand or were just boring, and then a few like C&H had crossover appeal
Lutger 2y ago
Thanks for mentioning Jon Klassen, I'll check it out. Our son absolutely loves busytown. We try to get most of our stuff second hand, the vast majority of books are terrible. And he knows. For at least 80 percent of the time, we are just re-reading busytown. And we have like 20 books or so that we might just as well get rid of. Another one we really like is the Gruffalo, by Julia Donaldson. A classic, which is also really fun to read as an adult. I wish I know of more of these kinds of high quality children books. Roald Dahl is another such writer who just doesn't care and writes what is fun for kids to read. I loved his books when I grew up. But its for a different age.
- MrSkelter 2y ago
  Try Meg and Mog. British and non rhyming but one of the truly great illustrators and fantastic little stories. Also anything by Tomqi Ungerer or Mo Willems.

tivert 2y ago

> A detail I only mentally noted as an adult: the butchers in his books are always pigs themselves. A pig selling ham, sausages and, presumably, cuts of pork is a bit morbid (and also hilarious in a black humor sort of way), but it fits in with the world so much that I didn't even think twice about it as a kid. It just slid past me. Also: every scarecrow has a crow sitting on it.

tikhonj 2y ago
I hadn't noticed that. It's an absolutely hilarious little touch.

ninalanyon 2y ago

> I didn't even think twice about it as a kid. It just slid past me. I think that the best children's books always have something in them that will be appreciated later. They can be read and re-read as one grows older. Probably the greatest prose exponent was Lewis Carroll.

queuebert 2y ago
I think also they put something in for the parents so reading the same book over and over and over to your kids isn't as boring.
shaklee3 2y ago
Like the giving tree. That one hits deep

kridsdale3 2y ago

> I still remember one of the books I had as a child—can't recall the title exactly—that had a bunch of urban scenes with various objects labeled. I have this in my son's room. It's called "Busy Busy Town".

cduzz 2y ago

My wife was quite sad when I suggested to her that "this little piggie went to market" was in fact the farmer taking the pig to the market to be butchered, and that "this little piggie went wee wee wee all the way home" was probably a piglet taken from its family to replace the "now big enough to sell" pig....

082349872349872 2y ago
If you wish to enjoy sausage, it's probably best not to enquire into how swine are raised and kept in our time.
- cduzz 2y ago
  I think she'd always imagined a pig with a hat and overalls walking down the street to buy the sunday newspaper...
- lnsru 2y ago
  My colleague was transported to mental health institution with an escort of police straight from the office. And was kept there for 2 weeks. People are treated like trash by other people. I don’t want to think about industrial animal farming. It’s probably the worst of the worst.
  - krisoft 2y ago
    > My colleague was transported to mental health institution with an escort of police straight from the office. And was kept there for 2 weeks. People are treated like trash by other people. How does one thought here follow from the other? I’m not saying that there aren’t egregious atrocities commited in the name of mental health treatment, but it seems that you don’t even attempt to argue that that happened in the case. With some people in some situations the kindest and most humane thing imaginable is to transport them to a mental health institution and keep them there for 2 weeks. The fact that we have that as an option demonstrates that humans care about each other and are not treating each other as trash. The baseline, without any systems in place, is that we leave people suffering a mental episode wreak havoc on their own life and the lives of those around them. Now that would be treating people like trash. As i say it is perfectly possible that your colleague suffered an injustice, or were more harshly treated than would have been possible or reasonable. But then say that, don’t just insinuate it.

082349872349872 2y ago

See https://kieranhealy.org/files/misc/levimartin.pdf https://kieranhealy.org/files/misc/levimartin.pdf "What do animals do all day?": The division of labor, class bodies, and totemic thinking in the popular imagination (2000) > Keywords: Animals; Totemism; Class body; Busytown; Symbolic domination; Division of labor (36pp, not entirely serious, about which animals do what in Busytown; contrasted with Babar, etc.)

com 2y ago
Mind boggling. Social programming runs deep.

WhyCause 2y ago

> The most successful exception I've seen are books by Joe Klassen (of I Want My Hat fame)... If you haven't read it The Dark[1] (his collaboration with Lemony Snicket) is also great; my kids absolutely love the voices I do for the animals in I Want My Hat Back and for the titular Dark. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Bccb-Ribbon-Picture-Awards/dp/0316187488 https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Bccb-Ribbon-Picture-Awards/dp/03...

WalterBright 2y ago

The Pooh books are like that. There's a bit of wry adult humor sprinkled in with it, too. Other cartoons "for kids" with an adult track in them: SpongeBob (the first couple seasons) Rocky and Bullwinkle

irrational 2y ago
Calvin and Hobbes
- wodenokoto 2y ago
  I don’t think that was ever aimed at children
  - irrational 2y ago
    I read it as a child in our daily newspaper. My children now read it in the books we have. I don't know who the target audience was for newspaper comic pages, but I don't think it was restricted to adults.
    - skeeter2020 2y ago
      The funny pages used to go for the dynamic discussed here: some of the strips kids loved, some they couldn't understand or were just boring, and then a few like C&H had crossover appeal

Lutger 2y ago

Thanks for mentioning Jon Klassen, I'll check it out. Our son absolutely loves busytown. We try to get most of our stuff second hand, the vast majority of books are terrible. And he knows. For at least 80 percent of the time, we are just re-reading busytown. And we have like 20 books or so that we might just as well get rid of. Another one we really like is the Gruffalo, by Julia Donaldson. A classic, which is also really fun to read as an adult. I wish I know of more of these kinds of high quality children books. Roald Dahl is another such writer who just doesn't care and writes what is fun for kids to read. I loved his books when I grew up. But its for a different age.

MrSkelter 2y ago
Try Meg and Mog. British and non rhyming but one of the truly great illustrators and fantastic little stories. Also anything by Tomqi Ungerer or Mo Willems.