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I am so sick of this kind of talk. What language do you like to code in? Really? That's great. Now shut up and go code in it. What difference does it make to

I am so sick of this kind of talk. What language do you like to code in? Really? That's great. Now shut up and go code in it. What difference does it make to you that I use PHP, Ruby or original ASP? My website achieves the result I desire. I chose the programming language I use because of reasons that made sense to me and my project, not because I want the approval of a bunch of hipster start-up kids.

clown 14y ago
Mate, nail on the head. The way I see it, is if the final item is as you've envisioned it, what difference does it make what it's written in?
- freshhawk 14y ago
  > what difference does it make what it's written in Tell me you believe that after you've both maintained a project for years as it evolves and had to hire a team to maintain and extend it. And done this multiple times with different languages. Damn, the language ecosystem and surrounding community are in the top 3 things that matter most.
cranklin 14y ago
agreed. Language is nothing but a tool. A good programmer will get the job done with any tool.
- waxjar 14y ago
  Even good craftsmen prefer top-notch tools over tools in bad shape. I don't know if PHP is in a particularly bad shape nowadays, since I haven't touched it since 2005, but I do know that tools are just as important as the end result.
debacle 14y ago
To be fair, this has been a while coming. There's so much PHP bashing that takes place now it's ridiculous. People take inefficiencies of the language from 5 years ago, tart them up as crimes against humanity, and then pretend that the only reason PHP is more popular than their language is because most people aren't smart enough to code in their language. Fabien, though I sometimes disagree with his technical choices, is one of the brightest stars in PHP right now and he's just putting forward a somewhat modest defense of PHP.
- slurgfest 14y ago
  A number of these critical articles point out problems from 5 years ago... which are also still problems today. I would have more sympathy if it were clearly evident that serious bugs were taken seriously rather than being ignored for a decade
  - debacle 14y ago
    Do you have an example of one of these serious bugs?
    - slurgfest 14y ago
      Every time one is posted (at least once a month), you and others complain loudly about how PHP is being unfairly picked on. You can't be satisfied
Shish2k 14y ago
The difference it makes is that with PHP being so popular, it gets a lot of support from cheap web hosts (often being the /only/ language supported), and thus if you write software to be deployed, PHP is the only option, thus it gains popularity, thus nothing else gets supported. I've been working with PHP for ~8 years, having it as my main source for income, and I'm /still/ finding new and interesting things to hate about it on an almost daily basis. I wish I could go and code in a better language, but that's not an option, because cheap shared hosts don't support any better language, because of people like you keeping the PHP ecosystem limping on.
- radio4fan 14y ago
  This comment completely describes my situation. PHP is like javascript: I use it not because it's good, but because it's what's available. People can bitch about PHP as much as they like, but my project for today is hosted on a server running PHP 5.2.4. I don't even have shell access; only FTP.

clown 14y ago

Mate, nail on the head. The way I see it, is if the final item is as you've envisioned it, what difference does it make what it's written in?

freshhawk 14y ago
> what difference does it make what it's written in Tell me you believe that after you've both maintained a project for years as it evolves and had to hire a team to maintain and extend it. And done this multiple times with different languages. Damn, the language ecosystem and surrounding community are in the top 3 things that matter most.

cranklin 14y ago

agreed. Language is nothing but a tool. A good programmer will get the job done with any tool.

waxjar 14y ago
Even good craftsmen prefer top-notch tools over tools in bad shape. I don't know if PHP is in a particularly bad shape nowadays, since I haven't touched it since 2005, but I do know that tools are just as important as the end result.

debacle 14y ago

To be fair, this has been a while coming. There's so much PHP bashing that takes place now it's ridiculous. People take inefficiencies of the language from 5 years ago, tart them up as crimes against humanity, and then pretend that the only reason PHP is more popular than their language is because most people aren't smart enough to code in their language. Fabien, though I sometimes disagree with his technical choices, is one of the brightest stars in PHP right now and he's just putting forward a somewhat modest defense of PHP.

slurgfest 14y ago
A number of these critical articles point out problems from 5 years ago... which are also still problems today. I would have more sympathy if it were clearly evident that serious bugs were taken seriously rather than being ignored for a decade
- debacle 14y ago
  Do you have an example of one of these serious bugs?
  - slurgfest 14y ago
    Every time one is posted (at least once a month), you and others complain loudly about how PHP is being unfairly picked on. You can't be satisfied

Shish2k 14y ago

The difference it makes is that with PHP being so popular, it gets a lot of support from cheap web hosts (often being the /only/ language supported), and thus if you write software to be deployed, PHP is the only option, thus it gains popularity, thus nothing else gets supported. I've been working with PHP for ~8 years, having it as my main source for income, and I'm /still/ finding new and interesting things to hate about it on an almost daily basis. I wish I could go and code in a better language, but that's not an option, because cheap shared hosts don't support any better language, because of people like you keeping the PHP ecosystem limping on.

radio4fan 14y ago
This comment completely describes my situation. PHP is like javascript: I use it not because it's good, but because it's what's available. People can bitch about PHP as much as they like, but my project for today is hosted on a server running PHP 5.2.4. I don't even have shell access; only FTP.