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I think the issue is the lack of consent. The data is freely available and anyone who wants to use it to compile lists of Perl developers can do so, but if you

I think the issue is the lack of consent. The data is freely available and anyone who wants to use it to compile lists of Perl developers can do so, but if you're going to put up a list of female developers without a) asking them first and b) presenting it in a context that anticipates and avoids the gender-politics objections to doing so, then you're going to get a negative reaction. It's probably something that shouldn't be creepy even without consent and carefully-honed context, or at least no creepier than a list of Russian Perl developers or Perl developers who use Windows or whatever, but that's not the world we live in. It looks like an honest enough mistake, but I guess we're going to have to listen to another bunch of white male community guardians parading their feminist credentials and belittling the original developer for his backwards lack of understanding anyway.

calibraxis 14y ago
So far, the only 3rd party blogpost on this linked here (Michael G Schwern's [1]) didn't link to the module nor author, so as not to "embarrass the author further". Many males serious about feminism (or "anti-patriarchy", whatever you want to call it) take care to not provoke costs which females must bear, and try to helpfully inform. Now, if you don't want to listen, please don't feel you're forced to. There's... exciting... frontpage articles here about PHP, something Steve Jobs said, a boat which flips vertically... [1] (http://blogs.perl.org/users/michael_g_schwern/2012/07/how-not-to-highlight-women-in-perl.html http://blogs.perl.org/users/michael_g_schwern/2012/07/how-no...)
- ars 14y ago
  Wow. Couldn't disagree more with that blog. "This Is What A Computer Scientist Looks Like" is exactly the wrong way to "empower". It's a photo. Who cares what you look like? You are a programmer - the only thing I should care about is what your code looks like. > [from the blog] Maybe give them the reigns to make the big decisions and you handle the grunt work. Are you kidding? I should do that because they are female? That's terrible. You should not care what gender, or anything else, they are - except their ability. If people need to see that there are others like them in a community (do they though?), then this module list is exactly right.
  - anextio 14y ago
    > You should not care what gender, or anything else, they are - except their ability. We don't live in that world. Neither do we live in a world where people of color are afforded the same opportunities as white people even though they have all the same rights. Software (and tech in general) is a toxic and often extremely sexist community towards women. It's easy to take your attitude of "not caring", but that doesn't solve the problem, it simply shuts off the light so that nasty people can do their bidding in the dark. > I should do that because they are female? Yes, if it's a freaking thing about women, then they should have the last freaking word. :) > If people need to see that there are others like them in a community (do they though?), then this module list is exactly right. This is exactly the sort of blind, toxic attitude that some of us are trying to help destroy. If women who are CPAN authors want to organize a community amongst themselves, then it's up to them to decide how they want to go about doing it. It is NOT up to men to do it for them without consulting or considering the consequences given the continued problems with sexual harassment in the tech community.
    - ars 14y ago
      > We don't live in that world. Online we do. No one can even tell what gender you are unless you tell them. And why tell them? Why should they care? > If women who are CPAN authors want to organize a community amongst themselves, then it's up to them to decide how they want to go about doing it. It is NOT up to men to do it for them To me you sound incredibly sexist. (Men do this, Women do that.) Women have their club, Men have theirs. Sorry, but I don't divide up the world like you do. Who cares who made the list? Are you saying that if a Woman made that list all is well? Why does the gender of who made the list matter? Shouldn't the only thing that matters be if the person wants to be on the list?
      - anextio 14y ago
        > If people need to see that there are others like them in a community (do they though?), then this module list is exactly right. We don't. Especially in the tech community, everyone is assumed to be male by default. There was a post not two days ago by a woman programmer showing that a common complaint among men is that women "don't contribute technical articles". News flash: they do, but the commenters ignore the possibility that an anonymous blogger might be a woman and refer to the author as "he" anyway. We simply do not live in the world you describe. > To me you sound incredibly sexist. Funny how sexists always say that to people who call out sexism. > Sorry, but I don't divide up the world like you do. Right, you'd rather completely ignore the issues facing this community. > Are you saying that if a Woman made that list all is well? In short, yeah. It's creepy for men to compose a list of 'females' without their consent and make it opt-out. > Why does the gender of who made the list matter? Because the tech community is utterly plagued with misogyny, sexual harassment at conferences, and people like you who want to ignore the whole issue in the name of not being told that they can't impose anything they want on a marginalized group.

calibraxis 14y ago

So far, the only 3rd party blogpost on this linked here (Michael G Schwern's [1]) didn't link to the module nor author, so as not to "embarrass the author further". Many males serious about feminism (or "anti-patriarchy", whatever you want to call it) take care to not provoke costs which females must bear, and try to helpfully inform. Now, if you don't want to listen, please don't feel you're forced to. There's... exciting... frontpage articles here about PHP, something Steve Jobs said, a boat which flips vertically... [1] (http://blogs.perl.org/users/michael_g_schwern/2012/07/how-not-to-highlight-women-in-perl.html http://blogs.perl.org/users/michael_g_schwern/2012/07/how-no...)

ars 14y ago
Wow. Couldn't disagree more with that blog. "This Is What A Computer Scientist Looks Like" is exactly the wrong way to "empower". It's a photo. Who cares what you look like? You are a programmer - the only thing I should care about is what your code looks like. > [from the blog] Maybe give them the reigns to make the big decisions and you handle the grunt work. Are you kidding? I should do that because they are female? That's terrible. You should not care what gender, or anything else, they are - except their ability. If people need to see that there are others like them in a community (do they though?), then this module list is exactly right.
- anextio 14y ago
  > You should not care what gender, or anything else, they are - except their ability. We don't live in that world. Neither do we live in a world where people of color are afforded the same opportunities as white people even though they have all the same rights. Software (and tech in general) is a toxic and often extremely sexist community towards women. It's easy to take your attitude of "not caring", but that doesn't solve the problem, it simply shuts off the light so that nasty people can do their bidding in the dark. > I should do that because they are female? Yes, if it's a freaking thing about women, then they should have the last freaking word. :) > If people need to see that there are others like them in a community (do they though?), then this module list is exactly right. This is exactly the sort of blind, toxic attitude that some of us are trying to help destroy. If women who are CPAN authors want to organize a community amongst themselves, then it's up to them to decide how they want to go about doing it. It is NOT up to men to do it for them without consulting or considering the consequences given the continued problems with sexual harassment in the tech community.
  - ars 14y ago
    > We don't live in that world. Online we do. No one can even tell what gender you are unless you tell them. And why tell them? Why should they care? > If women who are CPAN authors want to organize a community amongst themselves, then it's up to them to decide how they want to go about doing it. It is NOT up to men to do it for them To me you sound incredibly sexist. (Men do this, Women do that.) Women have their club, Men have theirs. Sorry, but I don't divide up the world like you do. Who cares who made the list? Are you saying that if a Woman made that list all is well? Why does the gender of who made the list matter? Shouldn't the only thing that matters be if the person wants to be on the list?
    - anextio 14y ago
      > If people need to see that there are others like them in a community (do they though?), then this module list is exactly right. We don't. Especially in the tech community, everyone is assumed to be male by default. There was a post not two days ago by a woman programmer showing that a common complaint among men is that women "don't contribute technical articles". News flash: they do, but the commenters ignore the possibility that an anonymous blogger might be a woman and refer to the author as "he" anyway. We simply do not live in the world you describe. > To me you sound incredibly sexist. Funny how sexists always say that to people who call out sexism. > Sorry, but I don't divide up the world like you do. Right, you'd rather completely ignore the issues facing this community. > Are you saying that if a Woman made that list all is well? In short, yeah. It's creepy for men to compose a list of 'females' without their consent and make it opt-out. > Why does the gender of who made the list matter? Because the tech community is utterly plagued with misogyny, sexual harassment at conferences, and people like you who want to ignore the whole issue in the name of not being told that they can't impose anything they want on a marginalized group.