9 ms·

Inspecting North Korea's Digital Map App: Licensing and API Insights

72 points by Bezod 2y ago

echoangle 2y ago
From the linked 38north.org article: > An older version of the app, version 1.1, was previously detailed by Alek Sigley, an Australian student who previously lived in Pyongyang while studying at Kim Il Sung University. How does that work? Do they just let foreigners into their University? And does this get accepted in any western state? Also, good luck ever working for a defense company or anything sensitive after that, I guess.
- psittacus 2y ago
  There is some information here and in references, but it's sparse on how he entered the university. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Alek_Sigley https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Alek_Sigley
- __jonas 2y ago
  They do, yes: http://www.ryongnamsan.edu.kp/univ/en/education/international-education http://www.ryongnamsan.edu.kp/univ/en/education/internationa...
  - duxup 2y ago
    > Studying at Kim Il Sung University, foreign students and apprentices can not only acquire the Korean language but also have a better understanding of Korea's time-honored history and its thrilling reality. “Thrilling reality” is an interesting end to that sentence.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- 404mm 2y ago
  I’m still stuck on the “why” and perhaps even “what”.
- wruza 2y ago
  And does this get accepted in any western state? What do you mean “accepted”? Is it illegal to learn in a country even if it’s a dictatorship? Last two Kims and The Sister got education in Europe, btw. New kids will do so too and then will return to reign.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    As in “does anyone recognize the degrees awarded”, I think.
    - zaphirplane 2y ago
      Does any university Credit the units. Is closer
  - astrange 2y ago
    > What do you mean “accepted”? Universities have to be accredited for other universities to accept their transfer credits. If companies want you to have a four-year degree then they have to believe you when you say you have one. > Is it illegal to learn in a country even if it’s a dictatorship? It's illegal for US citizens to do a lot of things with North Korea specifically, if you don't have permission first. That's how economic sanctions work.
    - hulitu 2y ago
      > That's how economic sanctions work. Those are political sanctions desguised as economic sanction.
      - astrange 2y ago
        The point is to make it harder for them to raise money to spend on building nukes. It's not meant to change their mind by making them feel bad or something.
      - Teever 2y ago
        They're not disguised at all. The stated purpose of these economic sanctions is to degrade the ability of an authoritarian regime from functioning to reduce the threat that it poses in the region and bring about political and economic change.
- mrtksn 2y ago
  On my vacation in Cuba some years ago, I found out that there are quite many westerners going there to learns Spanish in Cuban educational institutions. There were also university students who were there to participate in vocational education in Cuba-specific product manufacturing like rum. AFAIK even in Soviet times there were friendship programs and partnerships with the West to build civil ties which facilitated student exchanges etc, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are for DPRK too. I also recall something about joint programs with Korea/DPRK/EU/US to do production in special zones inside DPRK. Except for Americans, the place was full of western tourists like me and my HSBC cards worked just fine. Those insulated places might not be as insulated as the general perception leads you to believe. The internet situation was PIA, though I hear its much better now.
  - johannes1234321 2y ago
    The situation with North Korea is a lot different. North Korea is blocking itself quite up and very restrictive who can enter the country and what they can do.
  - RobotToaster 2y ago
    > AFAIK even in Soviet times there were friendship programs There's the Korean friendship association https://korea-dpr.com/ https://korea-dpr.com/
  - malermeister 2y ago
    Cuba also has the largest medical school in the world, specifically set up to train foreigners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_American_School_of_Medicine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_American_School_of_Medic... It's tuition-free and the state provides room and board. Part of the admission criteria is that you have to be from an underprivileged community and you take an oath to go back to serve that community. They have accepted folks from poor parts of the US, as well.
- throawayonthe 2y ago
  [dead]
- DicIfTEx 2y ago
  > How does that work? Do they just let foreigners into their University? Yep, looks that way: http://www.ryongnamsan.edu.kp/univ/en/education/international-education http://www.ryongnamsan.edu.kp/univ/en/education/internationa... (although I note that 'the US' is not included in the list of past students' nationalities). There is also a private university in Pyongyang funded by foreign Evangelicals, including from the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang_University_of_Science_and_Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang_University_of_Scienc...
- jccalhoun 2y ago
  This BBC article says it took a couple years for him to get in: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-48782235 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-48782235 It sounds to me like he is one of those people who just fell in love with the idea of this isolated country and then found out the truth the hard way.
- mannyv 2y ago
  Going to college in NK will definitely get you noticed. And the info you get from living there means you can be an instapundit expert on North Korea. "Well Jim, I lived there for 4 years. Let me tell you how North Koreans think.'
- agtech_andy 2y ago
  There was a graduate statistics seminar program in Pyongyang for a bit. https://community.amstat.org/sspa/communityblogs/blogviewer?BlogKey=5de1c2d3-5ce0-4c80-b0e8-d9a9a15ed4d4 https://community.amstat.org/sspa/communityblogs/blogviewer?... http://www.the-psi.org/psi-in-the-news.html http://www.the-psi.org/psi-in-the-news.html
superducktoes 2y ago
guy who wrote the blog here. happy to answer any questions
- rwmj 2y ago
  Are there any suspicious blanks in the map or missing buildings? Apparently the North Korean leadership don't like to be reminded of the unfinished Ryugyong Hotel[1], or more prosaically there may be missing military sites and the like. [1] From Wikipedia: "The government manipulated official photographs in order to remove the unfinished structure from the skyline, and excluded it from printed maps of Pyongyang" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel)
  - sunaookami 2y ago
    NTA but in the linked 38north article[0] it says: >However, not everything is detailed. In addition to numerous buildings having no labels, sensitive areas of the city, such as the Korean Workers’ Party complex in central Pyongyang and the Mirim Parade Training Ground, have no details, roads or building outlines. [0] https://www.38north.org/2024/01/a-close-up-look-at-north-koreas-digital-map-app/ https://www.38north.org/2024/01/a-close-up-look-at-north-kor...
- malux85 2y ago
  Instead of trying to decode the password from the huge decompiled file, can you use a debugger to intercept the call to sqliteopen? Or shim it out? I’m not familiar with Android development enough to know this is possible but this is what I’d do in x86 world - so just thought I’d offer a suggestion
yorwba 2y ago
> Options to share via Bluetooth and 3G and a third unknown option that lets you enter an address That option is labeled 통보문 (tongbomun), North Korean for "text message," and the second screen asks for the address and phone number, presumably of the contact to send a text message to. That's likely why the app has the ic_launcher_smsmms.png icon.
- superducktoes 2y ago
  thanks! google translate was failing me when I was looking at it.
  - yorwba 2y ago
    Next time you might have more luck with a Korean-English dictionary extracted from a reverse-engineered North Korean dictionary app: https://digitalnk.com/blog/2020/05/08/porting-north-korean-dictionaries-with-rust/ https://digitalnk.com/blog/2020/05/08/porting-north-korean-d... (Recursion!) ... although in the case of 통보문 there are no exact matches. It appears in KEEK.db in the definitions of various English entries related to messaging, and in biyak.db as a component of messaging-related terms. So you would need to query with something like SELECT * FROM dictionary WHERE word LIKE '%통보문%' OR definition LIKE '%통보문%'; for maximum recall. (Aside: I came across that blog post while looking for a Korean dictionary I could just download and use offline; for better or worse, North Korea seems big on offline-first applications. I ended up repackaging it as an HTML file I can use easily on my phone: https://github.com/Yorwba/dic.html https://github.com/Yorwba/dic.html )
agtech_andy 2y ago
Someone recorded a few car journeys and put them on Mapillary. Here is one that anyone interested can check out. https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1680771775466497&lat=39.045303000542&lng=125.75381835678&z=17&focus=photo https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1680771775466497&lat=39.... Probably the closest thing to a Street View that we will get from there for a while.

72 points by Bezod 2y ago

From the linked 38north.org article: > An older version of the app, version 1.1, was previously detailed by Alek Sigley, an Australian student who previously lived in Pyongyang while studying at Kim Il Sung University. How does that work? Do they just let foreigners into their University? And does this get accepted in any western state? Also, good luck ever working for a defense company or anything sensitive after that, I guess.

psittacus 2y ago
There is some information here and in references, but it's sparse on how he entered the university. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Alek_Sigley https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Alek_Sigley
__jonas 2y ago
They do, yes: http://www.ryongnamsan.edu.kp/univ/en/education/international-education http://www.ryongnamsan.edu.kp/univ/en/education/internationa...
- duxup 2y ago
  > Studying at Kim Il Sung University, foreign students and apprentices can not only acquire the Korean language but also have a better understanding of Korea's time-honored history and its thrilling reality. “Thrilling reality” is an interesting end to that sentence.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
404mm 2y ago
I’m still stuck on the “why” and perhaps even “what”.
wruza 2y ago
And does this get accepted in any western state? What do you mean “accepted”? Is it illegal to learn in a country even if it’s a dictatorship? Last two Kims and The Sister got education in Europe, btw. New kids will do so too and then will return to reign.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  As in “does anyone recognize the degrees awarded”, I think.
  - zaphirplane 2y ago
    Does any university Credit the units. Is closer
- astrange 2y ago
  > What do you mean “accepted”? Universities have to be accredited for other universities to accept their transfer credits. If companies want you to have a four-year degree then they have to believe you when you say you have one. > Is it illegal to learn in a country even if it’s a dictatorship? It's illegal for US citizens to do a lot of things with North Korea specifically, if you don't have permission first. That's how economic sanctions work.
  - hulitu 2y ago
    > That's how economic sanctions work. Those are political sanctions desguised as economic sanction.
    - astrange 2y ago
      The point is to make it harder for them to raise money to spend on building nukes. It's not meant to change their mind by making them feel bad or something.
    - Teever 2y ago
      They're not disguised at all. The stated purpose of these economic sanctions is to degrade the ability of an authoritarian regime from functioning to reduce the threat that it poses in the region and bring about political and economic change.
mrtksn 2y ago
On my vacation in Cuba some years ago, I found out that there are quite many westerners going there to learns Spanish in Cuban educational institutions. There were also university students who were there to participate in vocational education in Cuba-specific product manufacturing like rum. AFAIK even in Soviet times there were friendship programs and partnerships with the West to build civil ties which facilitated student exchanges etc, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are for DPRK too. I also recall something about joint programs with Korea/DPRK/EU/US to do production in special zones inside DPRK. Except for Americans, the place was full of western tourists like me and my HSBC cards worked just fine. Those insulated places might not be as insulated as the general perception leads you to believe. The internet situation was PIA, though I hear its much better now.
- johannes1234321 2y ago
  The situation with North Korea is a lot different. North Korea is blocking itself quite up and very restrictive who can enter the country and what they can do.
- RobotToaster 2y ago
  > AFAIK even in Soviet times there were friendship programs There's the Korean friendship association https://korea-dpr.com/ https://korea-dpr.com/
- malermeister 2y ago
  Cuba also has the largest medical school in the world, specifically set up to train foreigners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_American_School_of_Medicine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_American_School_of_Medic... It's tuition-free and the state provides room and board. Part of the admission criteria is that you have to be from an underprivileged community and you take an oath to go back to serve that community. They have accepted folks from poor parts of the US, as well.
throawayonthe 2y ago
[dead]
DicIfTEx 2y ago
> How does that work? Do they just let foreigners into their University? Yep, looks that way: http://www.ryongnamsan.edu.kp/univ/en/education/international-education http://www.ryongnamsan.edu.kp/univ/en/education/internationa... (although I note that 'the US' is not included in the list of past students' nationalities). There is also a private university in Pyongyang funded by foreign Evangelicals, including from the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang_University_of_Science_and_Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang_University_of_Scienc...
jccalhoun 2y ago
This BBC article says it took a couple years for him to get in: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-48782235 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-48782235 It sounds to me like he is one of those people who just fell in love with the idea of this isolated country and then found out the truth the hard way.
mannyv 2y ago
Going to college in NK will definitely get you noticed. And the info you get from living there means you can be an instapundit expert on North Korea. "Well Jim, I lived there for 4 years. Let me tell you how North Koreans think.'
agtech_andy 2y ago
There was a graduate statistics seminar program in Pyongyang for a bit. https://community.amstat.org/sspa/communityblogs/blogviewer?BlogKey=5de1c2d3-5ce0-4c80-b0e8-d9a9a15ed4d4 https://community.amstat.org/sspa/communityblogs/blogviewer?... http://www.the-psi.org/psi-in-the-news.html http://www.the-psi.org/psi-in-the-news.html

superducktoes 2y ago

guy who wrote the blog here. happy to answer any questions

rwmj 2y ago
Are there any suspicious blanks in the map or missing buildings? Apparently the North Korean leadership don't like to be reminded of the unfinished Ryugyong Hotel[1], or more prosaically there may be missing military sites and the like. [1] From Wikipedia: "The government manipulated official photographs in order to remove the unfinished structure from the skyline, and excluded it from printed maps of Pyongyang" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel)
- sunaookami 2y ago
  NTA but in the linked 38north article[0] it says: >However, not everything is detailed. In addition to numerous buildings having no labels, sensitive areas of the city, such as the Korean Workers’ Party complex in central Pyongyang and the Mirim Parade Training Ground, have no details, roads or building outlines. [0] https://www.38north.org/2024/01/a-close-up-look-at-north-koreas-digital-map-app/ https://www.38north.org/2024/01/a-close-up-look-at-north-kor...
malux85 2y ago
Instead of trying to decode the password from the huge decompiled file, can you use a debugger to intercept the call to sqliteopen? Or shim it out? I’m not familiar with Android development enough to know this is possible but this is what I’d do in x86 world - so just thought I’d offer a suggestion

yorwba 2y ago

> Options to share via Bluetooth and 3G and a third unknown option that lets you enter an address That option is labeled 통보문 (tongbomun), North Korean for "text message," and the second screen asks for the address and phone number, presumably of the contact to send a text message to. That's likely why the app has the ic_launcher_smsmms.png icon.

superducktoes 2y ago
thanks! google translate was failing me when I was looking at it.
- yorwba 2y ago
  Next time you might have more luck with a Korean-English dictionary extracted from a reverse-engineered North Korean dictionary app: https://digitalnk.com/blog/2020/05/08/porting-north-korean-dictionaries-with-rust/ https://digitalnk.com/blog/2020/05/08/porting-north-korean-d... (Recursion!) ... although in the case of 통보문 there are no exact matches. It appears in KEEK.db in the definitions of various English entries related to messaging, and in biyak.db as a component of messaging-related terms. So you would need to query with something like SELECT * FROM dictionary WHERE word LIKE '%통보문%' OR definition LIKE '%통보문%'; for maximum recall. (Aside: I came across that blog post while looking for a Korean dictionary I could just download and use offline; for better or worse, North Korea seems big on offline-first applications. I ended up repackaging it as an HTML file I can use easily on my phone: https://github.com/Yorwba/dic.html https://github.com/Yorwba/dic.html )

agtech_andy 2y ago

Someone recorded a few car journeys and put them on Mapillary. Here is one that anyone interested can check out. https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1680771775466497&lat=39.045303000542&lng=125.75381835678&z=17&focus=photo https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1680771775466497&lat=39.... Probably the closest thing to a Street View that we will get from there for a while.