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> Although East Asian people have higher IQ scores on average Citation needed.

alkyon 2y ago
Maybe parent was referring to the studies by Lynn, a self-declared "scientific racist". I think that despite lower IQ scores on average South Korea has been consistently beating Japan in go in the recent years, and more importantly they get rid of hanja (Korean version of kanji) from their writing system.
- cubefox 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - alkyon 2y ago
    Do you expect him to tatoo a word "racist" on his forehead (in kanji)? That you even dare to quote this pseudo scientific crook is just mind boggling. Relevant quote: What is called for here is not genocide, the killing off of the populations of incompetent cultures. But we do need to think realistically in terms of "phasing out" of such peoples. Calling his output research is abhorrent.
    - cubefox 2y ago
      What is the source of this quote?
      - jibal 2y ago
        The SPLC link above that you didn't read. None of the (sourced) quotes it gives from Lynn are scientific.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    Ignore the SPLC's own editorializing --- I don't take SPLC's analyses all that seriously either --- and just read the quotes on this page. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/richard-lynn https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/indi... Nobody here is defaming Lynn. You can disagree with the appellation (though I find a number of fact-checked publications claiming that he does describe himself that way), but I don't think it's reasonable to call the argument libelous.
    - cubefox 2y ago
      Calling someone a racist is one of the most defamatory statements one can make. People get cancelled for less. Instead of name calling, people should focus on the empirical question (is there a positive correlation between East Asian ancestry and IQ?) not on trying to undermine the reputation of someone.
      - tptacek 2y ago
        While I don't agree with any of that, at all, we don't even reach the question, because the point of my comment is that he calls himself that. The SPLC has him in primary source quotes. I don't think you're going to have an easy time of un-cancelling Richard Lynn. As it stands, your argument comes across more as trying to launder his most inflammatory claims back into the conversation. I'm not interested in debating phrenology, only the more specific question of what terms are and are not reasonably to apply to this person. That's a question we can actually answer empirically with sources available to us.
        cubefox 2y ago
        > While I don't agree with any of that, at all, we don't even reach the question, because the point of my comment is that he calls himself that. Apparently he does not. You haven't produced a quote to show that he does. > I'm not interested in debating phrenology Correlations between ancestry and IQ have nothing to do with phrenology. If they exist, they are not racist. Facts just are what they are.
        tptacek 2y ago
        For whatever it's worth, that was literally what David Duke said. I'm not saying you're David Duke, just that the rhetoric you're deploying isn't persuasive.
        jibal 2y ago
        > Apparently he does not. You haven't produced a quote to show that he does. That's not how it works.
cubefox 2y ago
Here is one citation: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1041608010000907 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10416... But also in most other IQ tests, Ashkenazi Jewish and East Asian people tend to score the highest.
- jibal 2y ago
  a) Bad science. b) Unsupported claim. c) Who cares, and why? As an Ashkenazi Jew with an IQ 3 SD above the mean myself, I focus my attention on that question and have a good grasp of the answer. I also have particular insight into why some Jews have high scores, and how the people who care so much about the average IQs of various populations draw all the wrong conclusions from them because of their ideology. (I would also note that many of those who care so much have lower IQs than a very large fraction of the populations they disparage.)

Maybe parent was referring to the studies by Lynn, a self-declared "scientific racist". I think that despite lower IQ scores on average South Korea has been consistently beating Japan in go in the recent years, and more importantly they get rid of hanja (Korean version of kanji) from their writing system.

cubefox 2y ago
[flagged]
- alkyon 2y ago
  Do you expect him to tatoo a word "racist" on his forehead (in kanji)? That you even dare to quote this pseudo scientific crook is just mind boggling. Relevant quote: What is called for here is not genocide, the killing off of the populations of incompetent cultures. But we do need to think realistically in terms of "phasing out" of such peoples. Calling his output research is abhorrent.
  - cubefox 2y ago
    What is the source of this quote?
    - jibal 2y ago
      The SPLC link above that you didn't read. None of the (sourced) quotes it gives from Lynn are scientific.
- tptacek 2y ago
  Ignore the SPLC's own editorializing --- I don't take SPLC's analyses all that seriously either --- and just read the quotes on this page. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/richard-lynn https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/indi... Nobody here is defaming Lynn. You can disagree with the appellation (though I find a number of fact-checked publications claiming that he does describe himself that way), but I don't think it's reasonable to call the argument libelous.
  - cubefox 2y ago
    Calling someone a racist is one of the most defamatory statements one can make. People get cancelled for less. Instead of name calling, people should focus on the empirical question (is there a positive correlation between East Asian ancestry and IQ?) not on trying to undermine the reputation of someone.
    - tptacek 2y ago
      While I don't agree with any of that, at all, we don't even reach the question, because the point of my comment is that he calls himself that. The SPLC has him in primary source quotes. I don't think you're going to have an easy time of un-cancelling Richard Lynn. As it stands, your argument comes across more as trying to launder his most inflammatory claims back into the conversation. I'm not interested in debating phrenology, only the more specific question of what terms are and are not reasonably to apply to this person. That's a question we can actually answer empirically with sources available to us.
      - cubefox 2y ago
        > While I don't agree with any of that, at all, we don't even reach the question, because the point of my comment is that he calls himself that. Apparently he does not. You haven't produced a quote to show that he does. > I'm not interested in debating phrenology Correlations between ancestry and IQ have nothing to do with phrenology. If they exist, they are not racist. Facts just are what they are.
        tptacek 2y ago
        For whatever it's worth, that was literally what David Duke said. I'm not saying you're David Duke, just that the rhetoric you're deploying isn't persuasive.
        jibal 2y ago
        > Apparently he does not. You haven't produced a quote to show that he does. That's not how it works.

cubefox 2y ago

Here is one citation: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1041608010000907 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10416... But also in most other IQ tests, Ashkenazi Jewish and East Asian people tend to score the highest.

jibal 2y ago
a) Bad science. b) Unsupported claim. c) Who cares, and why? As an Ashkenazi Jew with an IQ 3 SD above the mean myself, I focus my attention on that question and have a good grasp of the answer. I also have particular insight into why some Jews have high scores, and how the people who care so much about the average IQs of various populations draw all the wrong conclusions from them because of their ideology. (I would also note that many of those who care so much have lower IQs than a very large fraction of the populations they disparage.)