3 ms·

NYC stopped being the city that never sleeps a decade ago. That tagline is just hype at this point. Even if it was true, who cares about being able to take the

NYC stopped being the city that never sleeps a decade ago. That tagline is just hype at this point. Even if it was true, who cares about being able to take the subway at 3am? For the vast majority of citizens, this is a useless feature. I’d much rather have a clean efficient subway system that opens at 5 and closes at midnight. All of these points are the same tired talking points brought up anytime anyone criticizes something about NYC. It’s one reason I got tired of living there - for as big and diverse of a city as it is, it’s actually quite an insular, close-minded place that doesn’t like to be criticized. There is always a reason why something cannot be improved, and you’ve hit most of the items on the checklist here. Personally I find the S-Bahn system easier to use and more extensive than the NY system, but YMMV. Otherwise, this kind of conversation with a dozen footnotes is so tiresome. Yes, NYC has a good transit system. Yes, NYC is a big city, bigger than most cities in Europe. The original point of my comment was that no one in New York really cares about making it cleaner or nicer unless there is some financial justification for doing so. You’ve done nothing but prove my point here with your responses. The Bay Area is a similar situation: immense wealth in the area, and yet the quality of public spaces and infrastructure doesn’t reflect it. If you didn’t know better, you’d never guess that so much wealth is concentrated there. And then if you compare NYC to Tokyo, and suddenly all of those justifications disappear, because Tokyo is both larger and busier yet manages to have a nicer cleaner system. Which brings me to my original point, and the end of this sub conversation: culture is different in different places. Money has a centrality in American culture that it doesn’t have in Japan or Europe.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> NYC stopped being the city that never sleeps a decade ago I'll put a Post-It on the fridge when I get to my apartment there tomorrow. > who cares about being able to take the subway at 3am? Everyone I know in New York who works in medicine, for one. Everyone who has an early flight and wants to take the subway, either to their flight or to the airport where they work so the rest of us can take that flight. Everyone who wants to go to an outer-borough party and make it home without splurging on a cab. > always a reason why something cannot be improved Who said the Subway cannot be improved? Of course it can. It's dirty and we need more express lanes and more lines in general. The S-Bahn is a smaller, simpler system for a smaller, poorer economy. It's not what New York needs to aspire towards. Beijing, Shanghai and Tokyo should be our models, not Berlin. (Paris can come too. As can Italy and the Netherlands' national rails. Deutsche Bahn gets bounced.) > no one in New York really cares about making it cleaner or nicer unless there is some financial justification for doing so Cleaner, yes. Nicer envelopes value judgements. I'd prefer another dirty station. Berliners wouldn't. We get a bigger system; they get a smaller, cleaner one. > Bay Area is a similar situation: immense wealth in the area, and yet the quality of public spaces and infrastructure doesn’t reflect it Bad comparison. Bay Area transportation infrastructure is trash. (I grew up in the Bay Area, too, so no home-field advantage here.) > Money has a centrality in American culture that it doesn’t have in Japan or Europe Money doesn't make a New Yorker value more dirty stations over fewer clean ones. (Do socialists build cleaner train stations?) Again, look at the people with economic power in Europe and you see the same rapaciousness. There is simply less wealth to go around.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> NYC stopped being the city that never sleeps a decade ago I'll put a Post-It on the fridge when I get to my apartment there tomorrow. > who cares about being able to take the subway at 3am? Everyone I know in New York who works in medicine, for one. Everyone who has an early flight and wants to take the subway, either to their flight or to the airport where they work so the rest of us can take that flight. Everyone who wants to go to an outer-borough party and make it home without splurging on a cab. > always a reason why something cannot be improved Who said the Subway cannot be improved? Of course it can. It's dirty and we need more express lanes and more lines in general. The S-Bahn is a smaller, simpler system for a smaller, poorer economy. It's not what New York needs to aspire towards. Beijing, Shanghai and Tokyo should be our models, not Berlin. (Paris can come too. As can Italy and the Netherlands' national rails. Deutsche Bahn gets bounced.) > no one in New York really cares about making it cleaner or nicer unless there is some financial justification for doing so Cleaner, yes. Nicer envelopes value judgements. I'd prefer another dirty station. Berliners wouldn't. We get a bigger system; they get a smaller, cleaner one. > Bay Area is a similar situation: immense wealth in the area, and yet the quality of public spaces and infrastructure doesn’t reflect it Bad comparison. Bay Area transportation infrastructure is trash. (I grew up in the Bay Area, too, so no home-field advantage here.) > Money has a centrality in American culture that it doesn’t have in Japan or Europe Money doesn't make a New Yorker value more dirty stations over fewer clean ones. (Do socialists build cleaner train stations?) Again, look at the people with economic power in Europe and you see the same rapaciousness. There is simply less wealth to go around.