5 ms·

"and Exchange needs to die a quick death" What do you propose as an alternative to the hundreds of thousands of mid-sized companies who use Exchange/Outlook no

by roel_v 14y ago

"and Exchange needs to die a quick death" What do you propose as an alternative to the hundreds of thousands of mid-sized companies who use Exchange/Outlook now?

locusm 14y ago
Google Apps my friend - even Mining companies of 2000+ staff are right now eveluating it and loving it. As for your BI statements you must have a short memory. In the last decade alone the strategy for MS BI changes every 3 years or so, products that partners have spent thousands on training etc have been cut without notice, acquisitions in the space have been squandered with very little IP making it into MS product. You must have picked the worst example to disprove the OPs argument. Open source based BI solutions have made serious progress over the last 4-5 years.
- hessenwolf 14y ago
  Do Google apps allow you to have your own server completely cut off from Google? (cos no way would the company I am in want to let google see their mail)
  - locusm 14y ago
    No you dont host the Google Apps product locally - thats the whole point of it.
    - tripzilch 14y ago
      Yeah, that's going to be a dealbreaker for a lot of businesses. Some of them actually take confidentiality of their own and clients' data somewhat seriously. And for good reasons, too. Besides, you're not just trusting Google with your internal communications and sensitive customer data, but it's also an American corporation that's been known to willingly share data with government agencies. If you're not based in the US yourself, why place such trust? To illustrate, imagine there's a service like "Yandex Apps" (maybe there even is, I don't know), of course some businesses would not care as long as the product is good, but you can also imagine there'd be many that would be rather hesitant to host their sensitive business data on a Russian webserver on a different continent... :)
      - locusm 14y ago
        Yes, Americas National Security Letters and lawful interception laws are sparking a lot of concern over this.
- roel_v 14y ago
  If you are seriously claiming that Exchange and Google Apps provide the same features except for the most basic, one-sentence description of those features (as in, 'they both send mail and store contacts'), you clearly don't have the slightest idea of what Exchange is or does. Regarding the BI, I think you're mistaking me for another person in this thread, I don't know much about that, nor do I have an opinion. I'm just saying that Exchange is unique and there is nothing out there that can replace it without making very different trade-offs in the way your IT infrastructure is set up.
  - locusm 14y ago
    You have obviously never used Google Apps Premium edition. It does the bits that actually matter to users. I havent looked after Exchange since the 2007 version but am well aware what it can do.
    - veidr 14y ago
      Part of the "charm" of corporate IT is that what matters to the users isn't even part of the equation.
biehl 14y ago
Zimbra. Zimbra+Thunderbird. GoogleApps.
- astrodust 14y ago
  If any comment ever deserved an "El Oh El" it's surely this one. There aren't any enterprise alternatives even though there should be one. For instance, if RIM had half a clue and a nickel for every bad idea they've executed on they'd have built a messaging platform to compete with Microsoft. It's obviously too late for this now, but there aren't many companies that people would trust their email to.
- raverbashing 14y ago
  GoogleApps yes But don't waste your time with Zimbra, really
- roel_v 14y ago
  Do you know how Exchange works, and how Zimbra works, from a user and management point of view? (I'm not even taking GoogleApps seriously, because many organizations don't want to outsource the storage of their private data). If yes, how can you say that they are 'similar' except for the very most basic point that users can send email with them, much like both a Lamborghini Murcielago and a Ford Model T are both 'cars'? If no, why do you suggest them?
  - locusm 14y ago
    I find the "organizations don't want to outsource the storage of their private data" an interesting one. Do they think they can secure their email servers better than Google can? Are they going to refuse to hand over data if requested by authorities? As far as I know Google doesnt do anything more than say a spam filtering service like MessageLabs would do - i.e. index some text to see if it should be classified as spam / malware etc. You can read their policies on this here http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=60762 http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6...
    - 14y ago

by roel_v 14y ago

"and Exchange needs to die a quick death" What do you propose as an alternative to the hundreds of thousands of mid-sized companies who use Exchange/Outlook now?

locusm 14y ago

Google Apps my friend - even Mining companies of 2000+ staff are right now eveluating it and loving it. As for your BI statements you must have a short memory. In the last decade alone the strategy for MS BI changes every 3 years or so, products that partners have spent thousands on training etc have been cut without notice, acquisitions in the space have been squandered with very little IP making it into MS product. You must have picked the worst example to disprove the OPs argument. Open source based BI solutions have made serious progress over the last 4-5 years.

hessenwolf 14y ago
Do Google apps allow you to have your own server completely cut off from Google? (cos no way would the company I am in want to let google see their mail)
- locusm 14y ago
  No you dont host the Google Apps product locally - thats the whole point of it.
  - tripzilch 14y ago
    Yeah, that's going to be a dealbreaker for a lot of businesses. Some of them actually take confidentiality of their own and clients' data somewhat seriously. And for good reasons, too. Besides, you're not just trusting Google with your internal communications and sensitive customer data, but it's also an American corporation that's been known to willingly share data with government agencies. If you're not based in the US yourself, why place such trust? To illustrate, imagine there's a service like "Yandex Apps" (maybe there even is, I don't know), of course some businesses would not care as long as the product is good, but you can also imagine there'd be many that would be rather hesitant to host their sensitive business data on a Russian webserver on a different continent... :)
    - locusm 14y ago
      Yes, Americas National Security Letters and lawful interception laws are sparking a lot of concern over this.
roel_v 14y ago
If you are seriously claiming that Exchange and Google Apps provide the same features except for the most basic, one-sentence description of those features (as in, 'they both send mail and store contacts'), you clearly don't have the slightest idea of what Exchange is or does. Regarding the BI, I think you're mistaking me for another person in this thread, I don't know much about that, nor do I have an opinion. I'm just saying that Exchange is unique and there is nothing out there that can replace it without making very different trade-offs in the way your IT infrastructure is set up.
- locusm 14y ago
  You have obviously never used Google Apps Premium edition. It does the bits that actually matter to users. I havent looked after Exchange since the 2007 version but am well aware what it can do.
  - veidr 14y ago
    Part of the "charm" of corporate IT is that what matters to the users isn't even part of the equation.

biehl 14y ago

Zimbra. Zimbra+Thunderbird. GoogleApps.

astrodust 14y ago
If any comment ever deserved an "El Oh El" it's surely this one. There aren't any enterprise alternatives even though there should be one. For instance, if RIM had half a clue and a nickel for every bad idea they've executed on they'd have built a messaging platform to compete with Microsoft. It's obviously too late for this now, but there aren't many companies that people would trust their email to.
raverbashing 14y ago
GoogleApps yes But don't waste your time with Zimbra, really
roel_v 14y ago
Do you know how Exchange works, and how Zimbra works, from a user and management point of view? (I'm not even taking GoogleApps seriously, because many organizations don't want to outsource the storage of their private data). If yes, how can you say that they are 'similar' except for the very most basic point that users can send email with them, much like both a Lamborghini Murcielago and a Ford Model T are both 'cars'? If no, why do you suggest them?
- locusm 14y ago
  I find the "organizations don't want to outsource the storage of their private data" an interesting one. Do they think they can secure their email servers better than Google can? Are they going to refuse to hand over data if requested by authorities? As far as I know Google doesnt do anything more than say a spam filtering service like MessageLabs would do - i.e. index some text to see if it should be classified as spam / malware etc. You can read their policies on this here http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=60762 http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6...
  - 14y ago