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Analysts are always looking for some secret economic reason to explain these stats, but as an American living abroad for about a decade, I think there is a simp

Analysts are always looking for some secret economic reason to explain these stats, but as an American living abroad for about a decade, I think there is a simpler explanation: American culture places money at the center of everything. And I mean everything: cash is the metric for evaluating “success”, and factors into the daily mindset in a way that doesn’t exist so much in other developed countries. Economics is the default worldview, not traditional culture or social harmony or some other approach. It is a way of evaluating every kind of value and activity, and in scenarios where individual wealth is difficult to measure, the “public good” is disregarded or just ignored. For example, the quality of public transit, art, or architecture. This comment sounds like a harsh critique, and in some sense it is. But there is also a kind of clarity that is appealing, in an abstract way, and is probably why the US is generally a more innovative dynamic place.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> cash is the metric for evaluating “success”, and factors into the daily mindset in a way that doesn’t exist so much in other developed countries One, this is Bezos' day one philosophy at nation-state scale: America is always developing. Our culture benchmarks to emerging markets, not the Old World. (It's more true, in both cases, as an aspiration than reality.) Two, at least in Germany, France, Sweden, Italy and the U.K., the European elites are--in my commercial experience--as rapacious as their trans-Atlantic peers. > For example, the quality of public transit The New York metropolitan area of over 20 million peoople has a regional-rail system that operates with reliability only rivalled by Switzerland [1]. American public transit is, in general, trash. But comparing America to European countries is an exercise in selection bias. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41192264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41192264
- gradschoolfail 2y ago
  By some economic measures (e.g. median income corrected PPP) NY state is also very close to Switzerland. Otoh, wyoming has always been way ahead..
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    Ha, I have a potent nexus to each of the places you mentioned. Curious for the source on Wyoming--from where I'm writing this--being anywhere near New York or Switzerland. (We're above average in America and rich for Europe [1].) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP#50_states_and_Washington,_D.C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ....
    - gradschoolfail 2y ago
      https://archive.is/ycvZb https://archive.is/ycvZb The median ranking is very similar, but on mobile now (hence the shortened url)..
    - cafard 2y ago
      Per capita, Wyoming does pretty well, I see. Wikipedia says that mining and tourism are the biggest components of the economy. Of course, whatever the bring in is reckoned against a pretty small population.
- keiferski 2y ago
  Note that I wrote quality of public transit. Sure, NYC has an extensive subway system. But compare the quality of the actual trains and stations themselves to somewhere like Berlin, Zurich, or London. NYC is far dirtier and less taken care of, aesthetically. Which was my point - aesthetic appeal of a subway station isn’t something New Yorkers seem to care about in comparison to residents of other global cities (that are ostensibly poorer than New Yorkers.)
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > NYC has an extensive subway system. But compare the quality of the actual trains and stations themselves to somewhere like Berlin, Zurich, or London Yes, quality. You've got a big, dirty subway system plus bus rapid transit plus taxis plus the Swiss-calibre regional rail system I mentioned. I've lived in Europe. The New York metropolitan regional rail system is comparable to its capitals' medians. > aesthetic appeal of a subway station isn’t something New Yorkers seem to care about in comparison to residents of other global cities I once voted in New York. Give me a choice between ten billion into prettier stations and more stations, more rail, more cars, and I know which I'd choose. New York City and its metropolitan empire have a high-quality, high-availability, broad-spanning and comfortable rail system.
    - keiferski 2y ago
      Then we will just have to agree to disagree, because in my eyes there’s no way that NYC’s average subway station is 1/10 as clean as one in London, or that the regional train system is remotely as good as say, the S-Bahn system in Berlin.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > in my eyes there’s no way that NYC’s average subway station is 1/10 as clean as one in London It's not. But New York's subway is 24/7. The Tube is not. Different optimisations. During Covid, when stations could be shut down for a washdown they were clean. But they were closed. > or that the regional train system is remotely as good as say, the S-Bahn system in Berlin 95 to 99% on time rates, to within 6 minutes, begs to differ. There is a reason cars remain dominant in Germany [1]. Also, you're comparing rubber ducks and battleships. The Berlin S-Bahn has 1.5mm daily ridership across 211 miles [2]. Just the New York Subway has daily ridership over 5mm across 250 to 800 miles, depending on how you count [3]. Both at about 25 mph. The Metro North, New York's regional rail system, transport about a quarter of a million per day across 400 to 800 miles [4]. The New York metropolitan area holds its own against Germany's trains. Partly because they're both underpowered, one due to not being built up enough, the other due to deterioration. But partly because the New York metropolitan area has half of Germany's GDP with a quarter of its population [5][6][7][8]. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Passenger_mobility_statistics#Mobility_data_for_thirteen_Member_States_with_different_characteristics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_S-Bahn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_S-Bahn [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-North_Railroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-North_Railroad [5] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP35620 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP35620 [6] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=DE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?location... [7] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=DE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?location... [8] https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Current-Population/_node.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Popula...
thefz 2y ago
If you have more money, but: - you have to pay for everything as public services are ground to the bone - everything is built in a manner as predatory as possible to squeeze every cent out of users Are you really richer?
- Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
  A small percentage absolutely unequivocally are. They don't rely on public services, don't have to wait in line for anything, get access to whatever they desire, live in the best places, eat the best food, vacation in the most scenic locals, and the list goes on. They also have the power to ensure the system either stays the same or only changes to work even more in their favor. So yes, they are indeed richer.
asyx 2y ago
I noticed that every time I get into a new hobby, Americans online are very much either focused on turning this into something profitable or feel guilty for spending time and money without turning their hobby into a side hustle. That’s not really how I’ve ever thought about my hobbies. They are specifically there for me to enjoy my time after work.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> cash is the metric for evaluating “success”, and factors into the daily mindset in a way that doesn’t exist so much in other developed countries One, this is Bezos' day one philosophy at nation-state scale: America is always developing. Our culture benchmarks to emerging markets, not the Old World. (It's more true, in both cases, as an aspiration than reality.) Two, at least in Germany, France, Sweden, Italy and the U.K., the European elites are--in my commercial experience--as rapacious as their trans-Atlantic peers. > For example, the quality of public transit The New York metropolitan area of over 20 million peoople has a regional-rail system that operates with reliability only rivalled by Switzerland [1]. American public transit is, in general, trash. But comparing America to European countries is an exercise in selection bias. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41192264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41192264

gradschoolfail 2y ago
By some economic measures (e.g. median income corrected PPP) NY state is also very close to Switzerland. Otoh, wyoming has always been way ahead..
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  Ha, I have a potent nexus to each of the places you mentioned. Curious for the source on Wyoming--from where I'm writing this--being anywhere near New York or Switzerland. (We're above average in America and rich for Europe [1].) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP#50_states_and_Washington,_D.C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ....
  - gradschoolfail 2y ago
    https://archive.is/ycvZb https://archive.is/ycvZb The median ranking is very similar, but on mobile now (hence the shortened url)..
  - cafard 2y ago
    Per capita, Wyoming does pretty well, I see. Wikipedia says that mining and tourism are the biggest components of the economy. Of course, whatever the bring in is reckoned against a pretty small population.
keiferski 2y ago
Note that I wrote quality of public transit. Sure, NYC has an extensive subway system. But compare the quality of the actual trains and stations themselves to somewhere like Berlin, Zurich, or London. NYC is far dirtier and less taken care of, aesthetically. Which was my point - aesthetic appeal of a subway station isn’t something New Yorkers seem to care about in comparison to residents of other global cities (that are ostensibly poorer than New Yorkers.)
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > NYC has an extensive subway system. But compare the quality of the actual trains and stations themselves to somewhere like Berlin, Zurich, or London Yes, quality. You've got a big, dirty subway system plus bus rapid transit plus taxis plus the Swiss-calibre regional rail system I mentioned. I've lived in Europe. The New York metropolitan regional rail system is comparable to its capitals' medians. > aesthetic appeal of a subway station isn’t something New Yorkers seem to care about in comparison to residents of other global cities I once voted in New York. Give me a choice between ten billion into prettier stations and more stations, more rail, more cars, and I know which I'd choose. New York City and its metropolitan empire have a high-quality, high-availability, broad-spanning and comfortable rail system.
  - keiferski 2y ago
    Then we will just have to agree to disagree, because in my eyes there’s no way that NYC’s average subway station is 1/10 as clean as one in London, or that the regional train system is remotely as good as say, the S-Bahn system in Berlin.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > in my eyes there’s no way that NYC’s average subway station is 1/10 as clean as one in London It's not. But New York's subway is 24/7. The Tube is not. Different optimisations. During Covid, when stations could be shut down for a washdown they were clean. But they were closed. > or that the regional train system is remotely as good as say, the S-Bahn system in Berlin 95 to 99% on time rates, to within 6 minutes, begs to differ. There is a reason cars remain dominant in Germany [1]. Also, you're comparing rubber ducks and battleships. The Berlin S-Bahn has 1.5mm daily ridership across 211 miles [2]. Just the New York Subway has daily ridership over 5mm across 250 to 800 miles, depending on how you count [3]. Both at about 25 mph. The Metro North, New York's regional rail system, transport about a quarter of a million per day across 400 to 800 miles [4]. The New York metropolitan area holds its own against Germany's trains. Partly because they're both underpowered, one due to not being built up enough, the other due to deterioration. But partly because the New York metropolitan area has half of Germany's GDP with a quarter of its population [5][6][7][8]. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Passenger_mobility_statistics#Mobility_data_for_thirteen_Member_States_with_different_characteristics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_S-Bahn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_S-Bahn [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-North_Railroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-North_Railroad [5] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP35620 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NGMP35620 [6] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=DE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?location... [7] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=DE https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?location... [8] https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Population/Current-Population/_node.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Popula...

thefz 2y ago

If you have more money, but: - you have to pay for everything as public services are ground to the bone - everything is built in a manner as predatory as possible to squeeze every cent out of users Are you really richer?

Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
A small percentage absolutely unequivocally are. They don't rely on public services, don't have to wait in line for anything, get access to whatever they desire, live in the best places, eat the best food, vacation in the most scenic locals, and the list goes on. They also have the power to ensure the system either stays the same or only changes to work even more in their favor. So yes, they are indeed richer.

asyx 2y ago

I noticed that every time I get into a new hobby, Americans online are very much either focused on turning this into something profitable or feel guilty for spending time and money without turning their hobby into a side hustle. That’s not really how I’ve ever thought about my hobbies. They are specifically there for me to enjoy my time after work.